tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post1678316916637465516..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: GDS3 Reflections, Jay Treat: Challenge 1Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-83949227728335009402018-05-18T21:01:12.335-04:002018-05-18T21:01:12.335-04:00I totally feel your frustration with the "exp...I totally feel your frustration with the "explicit tribalness". I think every submission was hurt by having to include the word "Shaman" on every card. It also makes it harder to include eg the characteristic creature that the rest of these cards support.Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14318011531403551812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19922107750049048792018-05-18T15:06:22.297-04:002018-05-18T15:06:22.297-04:00I think the concepts underlying Rule 3 in that con...I think the concepts underlying Rule 3 in that contest help explain the mindset that caused some of the problems of Ixalan's block tribal set.<br /><br />The merfolk were essentially rule three applied to some very simple mechanics. So everything was just putting counters on merfolk, creating merfolk, buffing merfolk, and granting evasion to merfolk. It made them a weird turn-key, wind-up machine rather than a tribe that actual identifiable game play (or counterplay anyway).<br /><br />By contrast, with the pirates, lacking any strategical coherence, you ended up with these random pirate kicker cards--spells that performed better if you had a pirate in play. That wasn't terribly "tribal" either but it fit the terms of Rule 3.<br /><br />I think for all the flaws, most of you guys still managed to put together tribes more coherent than what the pirates were and more strategic than the merfolk.Larcenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637510675812632748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-25333783555676645672018-05-18T13:21:11.368-04:002018-05-18T13:21:11.368-04:00As an outsider trying this challenge, the explicit...As an outsider trying this challenge, the explicit synergy was really rough to design around. There are a TON of cool designs that are very obviously synergistic with your tribe without saying your tribe's name, but those don't technically count. I think this would have been a better challenge that allowed designers to strut their stuff if it was "Design 8 card, at least 6 of which have to have explicit tribal synergy".<br /><br />On a side note, I wonder how much your first two cards being off changed their perspective of the rest of your submission. Were they expecting the other cards to be problematic too, and did that affect their perception of some of your better cards? I really don't get the 3-color critiques they gave you.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02090253014943762842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-20445706489184936782018-05-18T09:20:06.191-04:002018-05-18T09:20:06.191-04:00was a missed opportunity.was a missed opportunity.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-38916339394110498772018-05-18T09:19:03.940-04:002018-05-18T09:19:03.940-04:00It was frustrating not being able to expand Wizard...It was frustrating not being able to expand Wizard's vision of tribal in this challenge because of the way the challenge was worded. I really wanted to show off incidental tribal (where cards of one creature type share a theme/strategy and synergize without naming that type explicitly) and/or cross-tribal synergy (where tribe A supports both tribes A and B, and probably B does too). That's the future of tribal and not being able to share that vision because the judges didn't know to allow for itJay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-28315071125184685422018-05-18T09:15:01.572-04:002018-05-18T09:15:01.572-04:00Yeah. I really needed more sanity testing.Yeah. I really needed more sanity testing.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-84469734310751785362018-05-18T09:13:49.113-04:002018-05-18T09:13:49.113-04:00The challenge constraints were tough. Only having ...The challenge constraints were tough. Only having three creature slots for 8 explicitly-tribal cards and having to make two of each rarity cut out a lot of the best options to present our theme.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81543318125562058022018-05-18T09:11:33.892-04:002018-05-18T09:11:33.892-04:00You're rarely going to have a use where the pl...You're rarely going to have a use where the player has to decide between tapping and paying mana. Rather, its how much mana can I afford and is one more better than attacking/blocking/activating my creature. <br /><br />You can also use it as a pseudo convoke:<br />2 R/T: Create a 3/1 until EOT.<br />2 G/T: This gets +2/+2 until EOT.<br /><br />I hadn't thought of 3/T. If that fits, it could work well.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-76847626497844425462018-05-18T05:00:38.408-04:002018-05-18T05:00:38.408-04:00Ouch. Yeah, I hadn't realised how much you'...Ouch. Yeah, I hadn't realised how much you'd playtested. It should have been obvious! I admit, my first view of a lot of these cards is, "that looks way complicated, where are the simple 'care about activation' cards". But the judges didn't even mention playtesting, are they saving it for later rounds?? It is a real kick in the teeth when the cards play well but don't look good, and you get first impressions from judges.<br /><br />I think partly, the judges are always just going to be less than perfect, and people need to intuit what will impress them, not only listen to what they say -- which isn't really fair, but is likely to be the case unless the judges are really practiced at judging (which as you point out, is different to giving feedback to colleages).<br /><br />I guess, have a checklist, ideas, playtest, refine, but make sure to have a sanity check (maybe save a playtester till last?) for "does this look ok at first sight" and maybe "does this trip over any edge cases in the challenge/fulfil all the nuances"?<br /><br />Now I'm excited to play with the shamans, because I *love* that "put it together feel clever" feel, even though I wasn't when I first saw them.<br /><br />Good luck next week!Jack (cartesiandaemon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08258267965242039995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-35522347120806927922018-05-18T03:18:05.936-04:002018-05-18T03:18:05.936-04:00I was surprised it was hybrid for a colour, I just...I was surprised it was hybrid for a colour, I just assumed it would be hybrid "tap or three" most of the time, or similar. But maybe it's too hard to make that symbol visible.Jack (cartesiandaemon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08258267965242039995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-83811411192874868812018-05-18T01:39:12.585-04:002018-05-18T01:39:12.585-04:00I am also terrible at mythics, I feel you deeply.I am also terrible at mythics, I feel you deeply.Jeremy Geisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07249133114127608655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-56072853806568011592018-05-18T01:30:24.471-04:002018-05-18T01:30:24.471-04:00I like very much the tribe you chose and the chall...I like very much the tribe you chose and the challenge to make activated abilities matter. I also think that it was a somewhat dangerous space at lower rarities where complexity must be low.<br /><br />One of the possible approaches that I thought of would have been not to use act. abilities, outside mana abilities, at common. Instead, using triggers when the creature became tapped. This of course meant that the tribe would've slanted more aggresive. For example, in your rejected Raise Dance, it's easier to understand if you say "you may tap a shaman as an additional cost (...)if you do, return two cards instead".<br /><br />All in all, I really hope you got back into your feet for next challenge!Amaranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008767362377413522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-5826216072331300472018-05-18T00:29:24.803-04:002018-05-18T00:29:24.803-04:00I intend to share those next week.I intend to share those next week.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78899288891139672732018-05-18T00:29:01.472-04:002018-05-18T00:29:01.472-04:00I expect the design space of hybrid-tap is quite s...I expect the design space of hybrid-tap is quite small. If a set used it, you'd want to use it everywhere it works, not just in one tribe.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-35874840186765443312018-05-17T23:40:32.007-04:002018-05-17T23:40:32.007-04:00I would have loved to see Hound tribal with some H...I would have loved to see Hound tribal with some Human crossover. I wonder how the judges would've felt on that.<br /><br />I really liked the space you were in with Shamans. I think activated abilities are a good niche for them, and it makes them feel distinct from Wizards (which tend to care about instants/sorceries/triggered abilities-lately) and from Druids (which care about lands.) When I think of Shamans, I think of bursts of mana, direct damage, elemental powers, and to some extent auras. <br /><br />One thing that really struck me about your submission was the lack of a common creature. I think having both mythics be creatures might have hurt a bit. Amid all the "activated abilities matter" and granting of activated abilities, I would have loved to just see a common creature with an activated ability...maybe something like a mana dork or pinger to players that untaps when you play a Shaman.<br /><br />Maybe a Shaman lord with this theme could double / copy activated abilities for Shamans, sorta like Naban. Then for the artifact slot, maybe it could be an Equipment that grants the abilities of equipped creature to all other creatures you control. Something like that.<br /><br />You definitely presented a lot to ponder. I think you're onto the right theme with Shamans. And that hybrid tap-mana idea is pretty mindblowing and brave.<br /><br />Hope to see you bounce back in the next challenge! Moonfolklorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16561371498676469490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-60596126851626321532018-05-17T23:26:42.867-04:002018-05-17T23:26:42.867-04:00This is mostly what I mean about the design space....This is mostly what I mean about the design space. I think you could find a few designs that overlap (I think you could tap or pay R to deal 1 to a player, but maybe not even that, maybe it could take the lava axe spot in a set?), but the number you could do has to got to be really low. It doesn't have to be the only way you enable activated abilities matter, but i feel introducing it for just a small handful of designs doesn't seem worth it.Enziohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155129964324823831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-75001489545855087142018-05-17T23:22:17.039-04:002018-05-17T23:22:17.039-04:00The biggest problem with the hybrid tap, in my min...The biggest problem with the hybrid tap, in my mind, is that in most cases, 1 mana and a tap are not really close in cost.Jade Phoenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13986265829174960972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-82064628165579832202018-05-17T23:13:36.072-04:002018-05-17T23:13:36.072-04:00I kind of want to see your oozes. Shaman being yo...I kind of want to see your oozes. Shaman being your second choice, do you think that hurt a little?Doug Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11099708938705613144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-21367580402599427572018-05-17T23:07:33.390-04:002018-05-17T23:07:33.390-04:00I was trying to figure out why I didn't like t...I was trying to figure out why I didn't like the activated abilities matter subtheme of Lorwyn's flamekin, and I would say Alexis's evaluation of its mechanical nature would be why. HOWEVER, I think something like Shamans or Wizards actually captures a way this can work with the "threshold 1" activated abilities mechanic-- in this case, the wording actually reads flavorfully in my opinion, even if it's using mechanical words. "as long as you've activated an ability of a Shaman this turn." sounds like something you might say while roleplaying, for example. My Shamans care about using their magical abilities! The most mechanical word is "activated" but I think it still gets by.<br /><br />I think I've said elsewhere, but while I think your hybrid tap symbol mechanic looks very interesting and shows a creative brain at work I think ("hey, tap symbols use the same template as mana symbols... why not combine it like the hybrid symbol?), I'm not sure how deep its design space is, especially to fill out a 3 color tribe. How many abilities are there that work well as both tap and repeatable abilities in all 3 colors that can go on lower rarities, especially when compounded with a need to have a certain amount to enable an activated abilities matter theme? Did you have an idea in mind about the number of good abilities you could make out of hybrid tap symbols?Enziohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155129964324823831noreply@blogger.com