tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post2690662109559894675..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Tesla: Go InteractionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-6858641595312090222015-07-11T21:56:48.874-04:002015-07-11T21:56:48.874-04:00In the light of that, I like Leveling Shock. Shock...In the light of that, I like Leveling Shock. Shock is not a hard card to have strictly better versions of, and like Galvanic Blast its fine in draft without doing Levels as your archetype, and powered up if you are. I think there going to have to be a careful mediation of spells that give you levels though, since creature combat is one of the biggest ways to interact with the strategy.Lefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314232061312529400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-47808068400336779292015-07-11T21:31:47.302-04:002015-07-11T21:31:47.302-04:00I think one of the other important reasons to do n...I think one of the other important reasons to do noncreature cards that are affected by levels is that it differentiates this mechanic from Level Up. It helps players notice that the Level counters go on You The Player instead of on the creatures or other permanents that would have leveled text. That leaves room to do something like Battle-forge since wotc only likes doing 1 type of counter that goes on creatures at a time.Lefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314232061312529400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-24654519660634776872015-07-11T21:31:18.283-04:002015-07-11T21:31:18.283-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314232061312529400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19473702408478337692015-07-10T15:34:16.701-04:002015-07-10T15:34:16.701-04:00Because the levels on level-up creatures were disc...Because the levels on level-up creatures were discrete, players will expect the same to be true of these cards. The 2+ unbounded threshold is clever, and does help indicate that the levels all count (stack), but you've still got to overcome the inertia level-up set in place. Not having P/T change helps there.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-39741641249959884302015-07-10T14:23:18.723-04:002015-07-10T14:23:18.723-04:00Jay, what do you mean by they stack? If you mean t...Jay, what do you mean by they stack? If you mean that the level up creatures only get to have on set of text, that is true of the originals, but my creatures get all of their text. That's why they only have thresholds listed, instead of ranges. I think leaving off instants and sorceries with levels is correct for exactly this reason, and just having Proliferate be the mechanic that advances your levels. <br />Removing level counters from the opponent is one way of impeding their progress, but I don't think its worthwhile. You have to be connecting with creatures in order to be gaining levels consistently. There are enough opportunities to interact with the strategy before you get your level counter. <br />I do think that it can go on noncreatures, though I think it would be best on permanents.<br />Aether Wellspring 2<br />artifact<br />When ~ enters the battlefield, proliferate.<br />Level 2 When ~ leaves the battlefield, draw a card.<br />Level 8 TAP: Draw a card, then proliferate.<br /><br />This way you can probably SEE the consequences of getting to continue to level. Instants and sorceries hidden information might be important enough to warrant figuring them out, but they will definitely take the most time to develop because of their one shot nature.Lefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314232061312529400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78841850182467062902015-07-10T13:33:15.668-04:002015-07-10T13:33:15.668-04:00EDIT: That was supposed to be {2}{G} -- I'm no...EDIT: That was supposed to be {2}{G} -- I'm not suggesting we bring back twobrid as well. Preview pane doesn't show formatting.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-54524123819632725712015-07-10T13:32:19.624-04:002015-07-10T13:32:19.624-04:00Proliferate would be a great mechanic to bring bac...Proliferate would be a great mechanic to bring back.<br /><br />Supposing we put Battle-Forged, Progressive, and some form of charge counter technology in the set, we can get all the utility that Proliferate had in SOM, while playing differently enough that it doesn't feel like a straight rehash of SOM.<br /><br />Using multi-targeted leveler spells will probably require no losing levels at instant speed. It's probably not a great idea anyway, but I could definitely see something like this:<br /><br />Back to the Stone Age {2G}<br />Sorcery (U)<br />Destroy target artifact or enchantment. Its controller loses 2 level counters.<br /><br />This would be another way to differentiate it from SOM's poison and ROE's level up.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-33242223530361105112015-07-10T11:01:39.728-04:002015-07-10T11:01:39.728-04:00I've been thinking about how Contested could w...I've been thinking about how Contested could work as a B/R, kind of reckless mechanic, in a way like Hellbent did. Sadly for that, I don't think there's much hope for Contested at common, and this sort of resource-trading doesn't always blend perfectly into Tesla. But I think I've found a flavor that could fit:<br /><br />Airship Piracy 1R<br />Enchantment - Aura<br />Enchant nonland permanent.<br />Enchanted permanent has Contested.<br /><br />Gul, Pirate King 1RR<br />Legendary Creature - Goblin Pirate<br />When Pirate King enters the battlefield or deals combat damage to a player, target noncreature permanent gains Contested.<br />"<i>Bring me that horizon!</i>"<br />3/2<br /><br />And while development would tune these to find the right band of power/playability, a cycle of mana rocks that call back to our old friends, Legends' Batteries:<br /><br />Azure Cache 3<br />Artifact <br />Contested <br />2, T: Put a charge counter on Azure Cache.<br /><i>On your turn — </i><br />Remove any number of charge counters from Azure Cache, T: Add U to your mana pool for each charge counter removed this way, plus an additional U.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-9353898606514020902015-07-10T10:45:08.707-04:002015-07-10T10:45:08.707-04:00This really is a great start with a lot of potenti...This really is a great start with a lot of potential.<br /><br />Note that levels here stack where they don't on level-up creatures, and that's an issue.<br /><br />Other possibilities for non-creatures:<br /><br />Leveling shock 2 {R}<br />Instant<br />Deal 2 damage to target creature. If it dies this turn, you gain a level counter.<br />Level 3—Deal 4 damage to target creature instead.<br /><br />Leveling Spear 3 {1}{R}<br />Instant<br />You gain a level counter.<br />Deal 2 damage to target creature.<br />Level 5—Deal 2 damage to any number of target creatures instead.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-86853300582643435662015-07-10T01:08:24.966-04:002015-07-10T01:08:24.966-04:00Jenesis, Blitzer of Levels has haste immediately. ...Jenesis, Blitzer of Levels has haste immediately. His text unlocks at level zero. He pays the price though, and his second unlock doesn't happen until 7. This was to demonstrate that they don't need to be immediately vanilla, but that its probably best to play with where the thresholds are.<br /><br />Inanimate, I don't think this iteration precludes the use of levels on non creatures. <br /><br />Leveling shock R<br />Instant<br />Deal two damage to target creature or player<br />Level 3 Deal two damage to target creature or player.<br />Level 8 Deal two damage to target creature or player.<br /><br />The problem being that they can't level themselves up with Progressive. So the spells become payoffs instead of incrementally increasing their own power. I think that's fine though since they are hidden information. Also, the whole idea that spawned this was Proliferate, which I think would be a strong rider for a lot of these spells. That example was pretty linear, here's a different one:<br /><br />Progressive 2U<br />Instant<br />Proliferate<br />Level 2 Scry 2<br />Level 5 Draw a card<br /><br />Sure, it doesn't push itself to be a higher level like the creatures would, but it contributes to your growth. The same idea can be used for permanent noncreatures as well, though obviously the creatures are the heart of the mechanic. The provide the baseline for level growth and, being combat focused, provide the most opportunity for interaction.<br /><br />Also, while I liked decoupling the mechanic from, "Count to 10", I absolutely wouldn't do it without a card like Jenesis suggests.Lefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314232061312529400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-38874322924359903742015-07-09T23:19:36.763-04:002015-07-09T23:19:36.763-04:00Oooh, this is a very nice way to do the 'level...Oooh, this is a very nice way to do the 'level up' mechanic. I like it a lot.<br /><br />Unfortunately, we lose out on the ability to have our noncreatures level up alongside our creatures - unless we give them other possible mechanics to give you level counters as well.<br /><br />Overall, I think this iteration is super impressive, probably the best 'you-level-up' mechanic I've seen yet, and I'd love to see more exploration of its space. Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-18979019704038240842015-07-09T22:27:01.456-04:002015-07-09T22:27:01.456-04:00This is pretty neat, and I can see myself tinkerin...This is pretty neat, and I can see myself tinkering with this deck.<br /><br />It is a little unfortunate that all of them are vanillas until you hit with a "progresser" at least once, but I'm assuming there will be level manipulation mechanics ala Proliferate to help out with that.<br /><br />Pretty sure that also demands the following:<br /><br />Super Munchkin {5}<br />Artifact<br />Whenever you gain a level, if you're level 10 or higher, you win the game.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-6032448693156932082015-07-09T17:43:37.396-04:002015-07-09T17:43:37.396-04:00Of the known mechanics, Battle-Forged is my vote. ...Of the known mechanics, Battle-Forged is my vote. Its simple, works in all the colors, and its incremental progress towards a goal.<br /><br />After last week, I did some thinking on how I would execute Player Levels. I came up with this: http://imgur.com/a/b4sy3. <br /><br />I used the levelers frame since it was the only thing available that got remotely close. The creatures have a static p/t, and as you hit the level thresholds that text unlocks. That's why they don't have the 1-4, etc, that the previous levelers had. <br /><br />The cards themselves are just conceptual. The idea being that the creatures contribute to player leveling, but also to their own leveling. So you can play a Progressive creature on its own, but if you play multiple Progessive creatures they all contribute towards you getting to higher levels. Unlike Infect, you don't win when you hit 10 counters. This is just you making your cards more powerful over time. I like this because it means that the Level you are trying to hit can vary deck to deck. Are you trying to get to 5? To 8? Its also got lots of knobs for development to tweek. Mana cost, starting level, p/t, etc. <br /><br />I think it creates a lot of drama about getting levels. <br />Agent of levels is attacking you. Your opponent is at level 3. If you block with your 2/2, he can just regenerate, so you don't want to. However, what if he has a Gargantuan of Levels in hand? Do you want him to possibly advance his nonboard state level cards further? I do think what's missing is some central reward card for levels. Probably something at uncommon or rare that is a knockout when level 9-10.Lefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314232061312529400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-62443156597923228522015-07-09T13:38:20.361-04:002015-07-09T13:38:20.361-04:00That's definitely terrible, but it's might...That's definitely terrible, but it's mighty rare too, no?Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81153182243107525892015-07-09T12:09:26.664-04:002015-07-09T12:09:26.664-04:00I don't want to encourage tournament players t...I don't want to encourage tournament players to write down innovate just to bluff the mechanic when neither player has innovate cards in their deck, the same way that MTGO had to implement a "pause on draw step" function so everyone could bluff miracles, but a note every few turns is probably less time wasted than a pause on everyone's draw step, so it should be fine.<br /><br />The nightmare scenario I envision goes something like this:<br /><br />Timmy and Jenny are playing at FNM. Both players are in topdeck mode and have missed multiple land drops. On her turn, Jenny draws, plays a 5 mana 5/5 creature, and passes. On his turn, Timmy draws, taps all his lands, and points a Fireball at the 5/5. Jenny puts it into the graveyard since it's obvious that it's going to die. A few turns pass. Both Timmy and Jenny play some creatures, drop some lands, and keep a card or two in hand. On her turn, Jenny draws a 7-mana card with an Innovate bonus that will almost assuredly win her the game from her current board position. She plays it, claiming that Timmy's largest spell had a CMC of 6. Timmy claims that when he tapped out to cast Fireball, he actually cast it off 8 lands for X=7, and therefore Jenny hasn't cast the largest spell this game. A judge is called. Cue hair-tearing as time is taken to walk the game backward through multiple turns to figure out exactly when each of Timmy's land cards in excess of 6 were dropped.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-33108066237981951652015-07-09T11:13:01.835-04:002015-07-09T11:13:01.835-04:00Frogmite > Hill Giant > Rumbling Baloth is p...Frogmite > Hill Giant > Rumbling Baloth is progress in the exact way that Rumbling Baloth > Hill Giant > Frogmite in devotion. It's an untrue oversimplification of reality, that science and religion are opposites, but it's a popular and simple notion.<br /><br />That said, I agree with everything else you said, most importantly that we'll have to define 'generic mana cost' for players.<br /><br />Innovate's memory issue is something we should keep a close eye on. That said, my guess is that playtesting will show it's not as hard to track as it sounds. I also would expect tournament players to naturally gravitate toward writing down each game's innovate level or using a die.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-12175072752066052672015-07-09T00:16:18.927-04:002015-07-09T00:16:18.927-04:00Inanimate's concern about Innovate is a good o...Inanimate's concern about Innovate is a good one, which I think can be mitigated in the following ways:<br />1) Design the majority of Innovate cards to impact Limited play. In general, Limited mana curves tend to follow a bell curve distribution much more so than for Constructed, and the set can always seed some durdly 6-7 drop artifact creatures to go around a draft late just in case anyone really wants sideboard insurance against the Innovate/dinosaurs archetype.<br />2) For Constructed, make the big marquee Innovate cards either best in the control mirror, or only good against aggro as a finisher when the control player already has the game locked up. This should mitigate the lawnmower effect against decks whose entire mana curve is lower than the CMC of the format's boardwipe of choice.<br /><br />The big issue with this mechanic is going to be memory issues involving X spells.<br /><br />I think caring about generic mana costs, as a mechanic, makes even less sense than caring about CMC (and doesn't solve the NWO issue either; I was a judge for a few years before it occurred to me that "generic mana cost" was the correct term to refer to the little grey number in the mana cost of a card). Why should a Hill Giant count as "more progress" than a Rumbling Baloth, but "less progress" than a Frogmite, when the relationship of their p/t is exactly the reverse?<br /><br />I am also leery of a mechanic that plays around in a space that development needs freedom to tweak. Devotion was fine because you had five distinct devotion themes to compare against each other, whereas changing one card's progress affects its valuation relative to every other card in the set that doesn't have an all-colored cost, especially if mana-fixing is sufficient that players are encouraged to play three or more colors to gain access to the widest range of potential progress effects.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-23312234727492184202015-07-08T15:01:25.370-04:002015-07-08T15:01:25.370-04:00If you're really looking for a card or set of ...If you're really looking for a card or set of cards at a certain price point, it will always help, even when it just trashes 4 cards that were between you and your goal.<br /><br />If you're just looking for gas in general, though, it could very well speed you past 4 good cards toward a patch of dead ones, and that would def feel bad.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19213762225999301912015-07-08T14:39:50.181-04:002015-07-08T14:39:50.181-04:00Looks a lot of fun. Not sure if it'll lead to ...Looks a lot of fun. Not sure if it'll lead to feel-bad moments in practice, but I'm definitely up for trying it.AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-57229053128153872622015-07-08T14:04:21.936-04:002015-07-08T14:04:21.936-04:00This is really neat. I like the many ways this can...This is really neat. I like the many ways this can apply. Your best shot is a land, or the widest part of your mana curve. But if you really need a more powerful card in this situation, or are gambling for a specific card, call out that CMC.<br /><br />This looks like a lot of fun.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-35468687616707421662015-07-08T14:02:45.028-04:002015-07-08T14:02:45.028-04:00Attacking with it / tapping for its activation see...Attacking with it / tapping for its activation seems acceptable, since it won't be getting the bonus if you do it afterward, solving the issue I mentioned. Sounds like a version I'd love to playtest alongside this one.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-38605611068085347712015-07-08T13:49:33.574-04:002015-07-08T13:49:33.574-04:00I like that addition, but agree it's unfortuna...I like that addition, but agree it's unfortunate I can't double up mechanics on it while it's in the shop. If we move the tap into the effect and remove 'untapped' then same difference (except that we can attack with it or tap for its activation prior to upgrading).Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-11235765574192061582015-07-08T13:47:14.785-04:002015-07-08T13:47:14.785-04:00Geas Owl {1}{U}
1/1 flying Bird
When ~ ETB, rummag...Geas Owl {1}{U}<br />1/1 flying Bird<br />When ~ ETB, rummage. <i>(Choose a number. Exile the top 4 cards of your library. You may put one of them with that CMC on top of your library.)</i><br /><br />This isn't progress, but it is a fixing mechanic that can help players find expensive cards (or lands, or the widest part of their mana curve, or simply something that costs what they can afford).Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-25697016045177851572015-07-08T13:38:01.212-04:002015-07-08T13:38:01.212-04:00Your prompt was appreciated, Alex.
You're rig...Your prompt was appreciated, Alex.<br /><br />You're right that mana-sinks aren't necessarily progress, even though they reward a lot of mana, which can be. Kicker effects like multikicker & buyback, as well as big-mana alternatives like flashback and kicker-cycling, or mana-nuance like sunburst or colorless-matteres, do/can.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-40122445166926034692015-07-08T12:54:17.696-04:002015-07-08T12:54:17.696-04:00Hee. Oh, certainly - I wasn't *objecting* to J...Hee. Oh, certainly - I wasn't *objecting* to Jay's post, just being confused by it, because of the context and the absence of commentary.<br /><br />Having played back in <i>Guildpact</i>, I'm not entirely convinced how steampunk replicate feels. I guess it has those connotations now thanks to its association with the Izzet. <br /><br />I'm also not convinced that all mana-sink mechanics feel like "progress" mechanics either. Mana-sink mechanics from recent sets included dash, outlast, monstrous, bestow, extort, and overload. Of which I'd say monstrous and outlast definitely feel like progress, bestow and overload sortof do, and extort and dash really don't.AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.com