tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post3490101417954271501..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Spotlight Challenge 3—Devin E. GreenUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-37635451339906973402016-02-08T19:16:07.269-05:002016-02-08T19:16:07.269-05:00Yeah. It's a bit hard to show off the mechanic...Yeah. It's a bit hard to show off the mechanical diversity with just four cards, but I'm sure you get that. There are two of some cards, but none of the ones I'm submitting.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78040963041466541792016-02-08T14:25:05.610-05:002016-02-08T14:25:05.610-05:00Is this your official submission?
I'm digging...Is this your official submission?<br /><br />I'm digging images out from here?<br /><br />Unearth<br />https://imgur.com/a/rKmtp<br /><br />Synthesis<br />https://imgur.com/a/3Udh7Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-63762107988795266332016-02-07T11:29:37.284-05:002016-02-07T11:29:37.284-05:00KayKay
- Synthesis -
Cephaloweft, Ambush Plasm,...KayKay <br /><br />- Synthesis -<br /><br />Cephaloweft, Ambush Plasm, Zameck Vitagor, Zonotic Mimic<br /><br />- Unearth -<br /><br />Runic Mortar, Glittering Totem, Timewarp Spellbomb, Academy CuratorDevin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-32414224220646052112016-02-07T09:54:58.848-05:002016-02-07T09:54:58.848-05:00Idk. Submit 4 of both.Idk. Submit 4 of both.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-86350076304769435392016-02-07T02:13:57.332-05:002016-02-07T02:13:57.332-05:00No, that's not what I'm saying.
The endin...No, that's not what I'm saying.<br /><br />The ending phase is divided into two steps, the end step and the cleanup step.<br /><br />The end step is when "at end of turn" effects trigger. Unearth goes on the stack at this time. When its trigger resolves, the unearthed thing is exiled. Players can play spells and abilities in response at this time.<br />The cleanup step is when you discard down to max hand size, damage wears off, and "until end of turn" effects end. Effects that use the stack can't normally happen at this time.<br /><br />This means that suppose I unearth Spiritblade, equip it to a 1/1, then cast Giant Growth on it. It'll be a 6/6. At end of turn, Spiritblade triggers. After it exiles itself, my creature will be a 4/4. Then after I discard down to max hand size, the creature will shrink down to a 1/1 again, then my opponent's turn will start.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78735672936014966862016-02-06T18:20:38.747-05:002016-02-06T18:20:38.747-05:00Right, so the unearth effect last until end of tur...Right, so the unearth effect last until end of turn, so Spirit Blade getting exiled and marked damage getting removed happen simultaneously. That was my intuition, and the Comp Rules seem to support it, although I suppose if it's not immediately obvious it's worth being concerned about for complexities sake.<br /><br />I think I agree, but I'm glad to hear that from someone else.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-75230693235094029122016-02-06T18:02:53.898-05:002016-02-06T18:02:53.898-05:00Damage unmarks in the middle of the cleanup step, ...Damage unmarks in the middle of the cleanup step, after you discard down to max hand size.<br /><br />I like Bush #2 (dedicated) and Krasis #2 ('safe').<br /><br />As far as which card I prefer to be dedicated, I think the Bush wins because the non-synthesized version is bad on paper, but clearly serves a purpose for the deck (either Bond Beetle or undercosted 4/4), whereas the non-synthesized Krasis is either crazy good or just Coral Merfolk.<br /><br />For the 'safe' cards, the Krasis is a respectable evasive dude and curve-filler. You'd play it in a blue, non-synthesis archetype, but you wouldn't aggressively take it over other blue cards (if blue is reasonably deep - I hope). That seems more appealing to me than a vanilla ground dude, which are a dime a dozen in just about any green archetype.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-49530787903770608302016-02-06T17:58:59.494-05:002016-02-06T17:58:59.494-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-6718076990997028772016-02-06T15:16:46.863-05:002016-02-06T15:16:46.863-05:00Spirit Blade - Doesn't damage unmark at the be...Spirit Blade - Doesn't damage unmark at the beginning of the end step? So this works the same as a Giant Growth, right?<br /><br />Stalker Bush - It;s meant to be a dedicated Synthesis common, and to be bad so the Synthesis deck could always get a few. Still, I think I think I aimed low. I added two alternate versions to the album. One is an appealing, efficient two-drop, and one is a slightly more appealing dedicated support common. Would love to hear your thoughts.<br /><br />Gliding Krasis - One of my favorite subtle ways of improving how a mechanic is received is to put it on a card that everyone already likes in draft. Version one is a wind drake with crazy upside, version two is more of a unique design that punches in the same direction, but with a much less appealing low-end. Again, which do you prefer?<br /><br />I like all of these artifacts though the Incubator is the most appealing. Still, I'd want to make it cost 1 more and cut the rider about creatures with synthesis.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-25903141959398837932016-02-06T13:26:53.952-05:002016-02-06T13:26:53.952-05:00Regarding the cards I haven't commented on bef...Regarding the cards I haven't commented on before:<br /><br />I think Eternity Engine is in a nice spot. It's the opposite of Glittering Totem in that you don't really want to unearth it on turn 4, so the unearth is more of a 'value' mechanic: if your opponent isn't blowing artifact removal on this thing they're probably going to lose soon anyway. Then it can do a Soul of New Phyrexia impression.<br /><br />Spiritblade: Nice clean design. +2 toughness is a bit awkward with the EOT exile clause though.<br /><br />Runic Mortar: Does just about everything I wanted it to do.<br /><br />Desert Drakerunner: As someone mentioned earlier, this has subtle anti-synergy with the existing Grixis unearth cards. I'd much rather it just said 'artifact' on the card itself.<br /><br />Academy Curator: It's the white Snapcaster! Great use of flavor and distinguishes it from Grixis unearth as well.<br /><br />Shrine of the Titan: Seems swingy. Other than that doesn't evoke any strong emotions from me.<br /><br />Titanic Siphonophore: Really nice art. 8/8 5 mana flier is no joke. I find it amusing how you can blink all your guys in response to removal.<br /><br />Stalker Bush: I want to like it as either an early drop to power out a turn 2 synthesis or a 'Goyf later, but that vigilance is really throwing me because it does nothing on the 0/1 version. Maybe reach (replacing Root Guardian)?<br /><br />Gliding Krasis: Is that a decapitated flying fish?? Instant-speed flying offers a lot of combat complexity for a common.<br /><br />Some ideas for the "Zegana's Powerstone" art:<br /><br />Zegana's Totem 3<br />Artifact<br />Synthesis 2<br />UG: CARDNAME becomes a 2/2 Merfolk Mutant creature with "when this creature ltb, draw a card" until end of turn. It's still an artifact.<br /><br />Zegana's Hydropon 3<br />Artifact<br />Synthesis 4<br />T: Move a +1/+1 counter from a permanent you control onto another target permanent you control.<br /><br />Zegana's Incubator 2<br />Artifact<br />T: Add G or U to your mana pool. Spend this only to cast creature spells with synthesis.<br />Each creature with synthesis you control ETB with an additional +1/+1 counter on it.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-30108012960230833712016-02-06T11:40:06.763-05:002016-02-06T11:40:06.763-05:00Well Red sacrifices artifacts, and White brings &#...Well Red sacrifices artifacts, and White brings 'em back. So the color pair together seems like a natural place for artifact graveyard attrition archetype even though it's a little bit out of the norm for both colors.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-52419874487402685522016-02-06T07:53:20.255-05:002016-02-06T07:53:20.255-05:00That's reasonable.
Right now you have a red an...That's reasonable.<br />Right now you have a red and white creature helping unearth. Is that red and whites archetype, because traditionally they have had more of an equipment theme. Which is fine if you want to change it, I just wanted to make sure there isn't a better color pair. I might sketch out a rough outline of the ten color pairs and their draft archetypes. Zeno Ragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364010535833286615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-2809531377021538352016-02-06T07:49:14.520-05:002016-02-06T07:49:14.520-05:00Agreed, hopefully that works for Jay.
Right now I...Agreed, hopefully that works for Jay.<br /><br />Right now I'm drawing some of the design sensibility from the Simic, but I'm not necessarily thinking of it as a new Ravnica block. Synthesis is a great mechanic, but it wouldn't exactly play nice in Ravnica because of the density of new keywords that the guilds bring. <br /><br />The flavor I was imagining was a Simic Colony on another plane, founded by a 'Walker born on Ravnica and raised in the Combine. It's not really a printable idea, since it would be impossible to make a set for each guild and unfair to highlight just the one, still, I think the flavor is fundamentally biological so I wouldn't make a battle-suit myself. That being said, it's a good idea for a riff, and I am endlessly pleased that you found it in the middle of a challenge about reskinning and updating an old mechanic.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-20968075175652929272016-02-06T07:42:45.352-05:002016-02-06T07:42:45.352-05:00@P_for_Pizza: Yeah, you're totally right, Stal...@P_for_Pizza: Yeah, you're totally right, Stalker Bush is just the worst. I was aiming for a Lumberknot style all-in card, but now I remember how crummy it always felt to play Lumberknot. <br /><br />Desert Drakerunner originally read "unearth costs on artifact cards in your graveyard cost 1 less..." but I thought it looked clunky. Now I think it was a better design since it made it clear what the card was good at.<br /><br />I'm designing for a set with no unearthing creatures. This is partially because of the goal of the challenge, so it's a little artificial. Still, I'm resisting that right now to make sure the line between Grixis and... er... Indiana is clear. Think Golem Foundry over Rusted Relic.<br /><br />Desert Drakerunner and the Academy Curator are my attempts to show the role of colored spells and creatures in a set built around artifacts. I'm aiming for something that contrasts well to the two Mirrodin blocks- more artifacts than usual, but with a greater diversity of draft-archetypes. Instead of Metalcraft vs. Infect and Artifact vs. Anti-Artifact, my goal would be to make a diversity of very different artifact-grounded archetypes. Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-75434868833714211182016-02-06T07:23:05.592-05:002016-02-06T07:23:05.592-05:00I like almost all of your design for both mechanic...I like almost all of your design for both mechanics.<br />Two have something I would change:<br />Stalker Bush is a 1 mana 0/1, a card that is below unplayable, so you pretty much do not have choice of synthesizing it or not, you HAVE TO do it. I would make it a {1}{G} 1/2 or 1/3 vigilance to make the choice meaningful.<br />Desert Drakerunner is a fine design, and a space I like red is expanding on, but I'm left to feel of the bad moments players will have when they mix up unearthing artifacts and unearthing creatures, where the cost reduction is completely useless, as the unearthed creature won't have the chance to attack. I don't know if there's a wording that can adjust this situation, or if the design has to change in some way. It could obviously see print as is, if the set has only artifact with unearth.P for Pizzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05000340281390449308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-22503259831922497112016-02-06T02:05:19.587-05:002016-02-06T02:05:19.587-05:00Your explanation for Unearth makes sense now. Than...Your explanation for Unearth makes sense now. Thanks! What kind of setting do you see it on? Would unearth also be on creatures in this set, or would it be exclusive to artifacts? Will the set be slightly artifact heavy set?<br /><br />So you don't want people to lightning bolt the creature as the exile is on the stack. That makes sense. Zeno Ragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364010535833286615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-72504520667503853842016-02-05T23:48:23.667-05:002016-02-05T23:48:23.667-05:00There's nothing that says that you can't s...There's nothing that says that you can't submit two ideas for the initial review. I would submit 4-5 designs of each, and go with which ever one has the most positive feedback. <br /><br />Is Synthesis for Return to Ravnica 2.0, or for another plane? If not on Ravnica, then I'd like to see Synthesis in other colors. How about an artifact creature that represents a battle suit of some kind. Zeno Ragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364010535833286615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-86969319318366909362016-02-05T22:54:32.330-05:002016-02-05T22:54:32.330-05:00So, Jay, I'm not totally certain about the for...So, Jay, I'm not totally certain about the format here. We have two strong contenders for the final design, and I want to continue pursuing both of them. Also, I have more than six designs right now, because I think it's better to develop extras and leave open the option to cut cards completely.<br /><br />If pressed, I will commit to Synthesis, but only because of my loyalty to the Combine. If you have thoughts on the unearth designs we've put together, I'd really love to hear them.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87055258784451519752016-02-04T18:46:57.907-05:002016-02-04T18:46:57.907-05:00Two new links, couple new cards, more than six, so...Two new links, couple new cards, more than six, so now we can actually veto designs and we'll still have enough to submit:<br /><br />Unearth<br />https://imgur.com/a/rKmtp<br /><br />Synthesis<br />https://imgur.com/a/3Udh7<br /><br />@Zeno_Rage: I changed the wording slightly. It's important that the creature enter the battlefield with the counters so that when players try to play around a burn spell, there is no techy, pointless window where the can still be punished.<br /><br />Now it reads "If you do, this creature enters..." a few characters longer, but clearer I hope?<br /><br />Regarding your comments on Unearth, I think the flavor is archaeological research. You aren't digging up the whole artifact, dusting it off and throwing it at someone, you're digging up the ruins or remains of that artifact, studying it and using the knowledge against your opponent.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-21619370649290238772016-02-04T16:21:59.434-05:002016-02-04T16:21:59.434-05:00Zonotic as in, it came out of a Zonot. Not intende...Zonotic as in, it came out of a Zonot. Not intended to have infection imagery.<br /><br />Originally had Root Guardian as a 2/4 with Synthesis 2, but I was worried about a common with 6 toughness. Maybe that's fine since you will have to build up to it.<br /><br />Yeah, I have to say I was just really excited to find art with such a downright Simic look to it, I'd love it if someone came up with a better design for that picture.<br /><br />Adding in a new Mythic.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-56622515253844570112016-02-04T01:51:10.300-05:002016-02-04T01:51:10.300-05:00For Unearth Artifacts, there is so much to explore...For Unearth Artifacts, there is so much to explore. Colored artifacts? Artifact creatures? Artifacts that go straight to the graveyard somehow? Or interact more with the graveyard? Artifacts that any player can Unearth? Snapcaster(archaeologist) for artifacts?<br /><br />My favorite is colored Unearth activations. You can only dig up this artifact in this region of the world. For instance, 'Unearth RR' would represent an artifact that is buried underneath mountains. You won't find it digging underneath Swamps or Islands. Nope. You have to go to a Mountain to get this sacred treasure.<br /><br />Usually, when you find a buried artifact, it has some sort of unimaginable power. But back before it was lost and buried, it was probably an average artifact for that time period. Maybe you can portray this by a bonus for being unearthed, or maybe you have a better idea.<br /><br />Card Idea: <br />At the beginning of your upkeep, if CARDNAME is in your graveyard, put a century counter on it.<br />Unearth<br />When you Unearth CARDNAME, if it had ten or more century counters on it, you win the game.<br />(you can add numbers and name it and redo it however you like.)<br /><br />Does the Unearthed card have to be exiled? I feel like we have a difference between creature unearth (you only imbue the creature with enough life force to last one turn) and artifact unearth (your'e actually digging up a powerful object.) Why would you get rid of that artifact? It doesn't seem to fit with the idea of an archaeologist (Did you ever see Indiana Jones throw away his "prize" voluntarily?) I was just wondering if there was a way we could make it more flavorful.<br /><br />I'll see what I can do about posting some more card ideas in the next couple of days.<br /><br />P.S. Just found out there is a limit on how many characters you can post in a comment. I guess 815 words & 4686 characters is to much. That's what I get for typing for an hour at 1:00 in the morning.Zeno Ragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364010535833286615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81132163833341504422016-02-04T01:46:16.883-05:002016-02-04T01:46:16.883-05:00I kinda rambled on a little bit, so if you are jus...I kinda rambled on a little bit, so if you are just interested on my suggestions for Synthesis & Unearth, go ahead and skip the next four paragraphs. If you want to read about the Spotlight challenges in general, then read on.<br /><br />---------------------------------------------------<br />First off, Id'e like to apologize to Devin for not contributing as much as you did during my challenge. I wish I could repay the favor more, but life gets hectic. And I procrastinate( I am only human after all!)<br /><br />Now some feedback. Right now, I think Synthesis and Unearth are the most flavorful( and I'm all about flavor!) I kinda find this sad though, because like Jason Carrington said, non-creature/permanent mechanics are hard to convey flavorfully. Or at the very least, like Jenesis said, the mechanic doesn't connect with the card it's on in a flavor full way. I wish there was an easy solution to this, but if there was, no one would have mentioned it.<br /><br />Any way, back to the task at hand. Speaking from experience, don't try to have a "complete" or "perfect" set of cards for your first submission to Jay. Try to be as broad as possible in your designs, maybe submitting multiple versions of a mechanic or multiple mechanics. That way you can receive as much feedback as possible to launch your final submission. That's what I did(well, kinda.)<br /><br />One thing I think your doing correctly is keeping all ideas open to exploration, and not focusing all of your attention on one idea. As we learned a couple of weeks ago, being narrowed into a corner isn't going to prove fruitful( and to be fair to Ipaulsen, that was only the second ever spotlight challenge, and none of us know the best way to go about it.) Future Spotlight Challengers should keep this in mind.<br />---------------------------------------------------<br />Enough of my rambling about the Spotlights and the future! Let me get to something more relevant.<br /><br />I love Synthesis. I like the idea of a creature being mutated and absorbed by another creature, only to be popped back out later. I love it. It's just that the wording could be changed slightly. Something like:<br /><br />As this enters the battlefield, you may exile another nontoken creature you control until this leaves the battlefield. If you do, put X +1/+1 counters on CARDNAME.<br /><br />Or something like that. Before, Synthesis had the "I get counters" right after "return creature after climatic death." This made it read (for me at least) that when the exiled creature would return, it (pretend "it" is in bold) would receive the counters. Hopefully this will alleviate any possible confusion, and just read better.<br /><br />Also, if you want it to be more representative of the creature it absorbed, you could scale the counters off of the exiled creatures casting cost. Or power. Or toughness. Although, that's probably developmentally harder.Zeno Ragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364010535833286615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-49589296883746971822016-02-04T00:42:29.910-05:002016-02-04T00:42:29.910-05:00Blue cards are sweet. Ambush Plasm is all kinds of...Blue cards are sweet. Ambush Plasm is all kinds of versatile and Cephaloweft will probably just be cast most of the time, but can pull off some nifty ETB loops.<br /><br />Zameck Vitagor feels just right at the boundary of how complex a new mechanic can be at uncommon.<br /><br />"Mutant Coral" is a beautiful typeline. Is this a misspelling of "zoonotic" or a reference to "Zonot"? (or both?)<br /><br />I think I'd like Root Guardian more as a dude-with-blocking-only-keyword if it had a smaller front end.<br /><br />There's always gotta be a miss, and for this batch I feel it's Zegana's Powerstone. Both halves of it mimic what the other monoblue cards are already doing, and I can't help but imagine board states where the correct play is simply to bounce your opponent's best creature over and over each turn.Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-59058517142350354142016-02-03T21:54:16.581-05:002016-02-03T21:54:16.581-05:00Added an Imgur album of Synthesis cards. Right now...Added an Imgur album of Synthesis cards. Right now I have two rares and no mythic.<br /><br />https://imgur.com/a/al3b9Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-16929205824319342932016-02-03T21:42:57.926-05:002016-02-03T21:42:57.926-05:00@Jenesis: My first thought when I saw that the cre...@Jenesis: My first thought when I saw that the creature comes back is that this is a sort of unstable fusion of two animals. When something would destroy it, the combination breaks apart. From a mechanical perspective, it lets you voltron safely so it is pretty essential to the design.Devin E. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216945116878064817noreply@blogger.com