tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post4866978076039029213..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: CCDD 012918—FatetouchUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-73146245699746372842018-01-31T13:57:20.823-05:002018-01-31T13:57:20.823-05:00I don't think the strength of the effect is th...I don't think the strength of the effect is the problem. Creatures with lifelink rarely show up at larger sizes, and making someone work for it is kind of fun. The main problem looks like the time component. lifelink, wither, and infect all just involve a notation change. Scrying takes time, and the bigger the number, the longer it takes (I think it's O(2N!) but I could be wrong).<br /><br />If you can lock the size of the scry, and preferably also the number of scries, you have a better handle on the parameters, and can cost things more confidently.<br /><br />Fatetouch (Whenever one or more creatures you control with fatetouch deal combat damage to a player, scry 2.)<br /><br />Hopefully that reminder text spells out what I mean. You get one "scry 2" whenever at least one of your scrytouchers deals damage. If one of them deals regular combat damage to players, scry 2. If five of them deal regular combat damage to players, scry 2. If one deals first strike and one deals regular, scry 2 for each.<br /><br />Even 'just' scrying 2 a turn is powerful. Powerful enough that you want to take steps to keep the game moving - linking it to any damage doesn't do that as effectively as combat damage, or combat damage to players. By having it trigger on one or more, you reduce parasitism, since it's now a threshold 1 mechanic, and each card that cares also can bring the trigger. More is still good, since it increases the likelihood of you getting through (since we tie it to combat damage to players), but it's not exponential like a lot of parasitic mechanics. By locking the number you prevent time sinks and power concerns. But we still have first strike and regular damage, which is cool.<br /><br />Anywho, that's my take on the ability. It has promise, don't give up on it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03728704016985622244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-248247021358785202018-01-31T00:01:28.970-05:002018-01-31T00:01:28.970-05:00If you activate it twice without passing priority,...If you activate it twice without passing priority, you get to scry 2.<br />I dunno we want that, but that's the idea.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87204517764631806382018-01-30T17:04:11.748-05:002018-01-30T17:04:11.748-05:00I don't know how that would work with cards li...I don't know how that would work with cards like Hidden Stockpile.Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-79713622379942905782018-01-30T15:37:11.666-05:002018-01-30T15:37:11.666-05:00That's tempting. If they block, they're li...That's tempting. If they block, they're likely trading, and ending your reign of scry (which is good, especially since you can work to prevent that). It then makes the opponent decide whether they'd rather take the damage or let you scry, which is cool. That ends up being pretty evasion-y, though, which isn't what blue-black needs most. But working on defense might be enough to justify that.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-29592158925051321612018-01-30T12:08:57.317-05:002018-01-30T12:08:57.317-05:00I think a way to make this work is to have it be l...I think a way to make this work is to have it be like afflict and triggered on blocking. It forces a decision on the opponent that isn't as clear cut as other decisions you might make.<br /><br />It also makes it so you don't have to fiddle with your deck as often as you might just take damage to stop the selection.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15498652693718197213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-82511334304333728272018-01-30T09:31:14.487-05:002018-01-30T09:31:14.487-05:00Scry 1 as a saboteur ability could go on a fair nu...Scry 1 as a saboteur ability could go on a fair number of cards. Not sure it's worth keywording, unless we use it enough to also figure out how to combine Scry 1 + Scry 1 = Scry 2.<br /><br />Which, it occurs to me, we could just make a game rule: If you would ever take multiple consecutive scries, you may combine any number of them into single larger scries.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-67044521326102700452018-01-30T09:29:21.173-05:002018-01-30T09:29:21.173-05:00It was very relevant. Magic needs a lot of smoothi...It was very relevant. Magic needs a lot of smoothing to <a href="http://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2017/12/non-games.html" rel="nofollow">consistently be a game</a>, and all the scry in Theros is about as close as we've gotten (alongside the explore in Ixalan, the cycling in Amonkhet, and investigate in Shadows.) It was slightly more important in Theros because of the A-B mechanics of heroic and bestow.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-80198660488036357162018-01-30T00:13:40.792-05:002018-01-30T00:13:40.792-05:00I wasn't playing magic at the time of the Ther...I wasn't playing magic at the time of the Theros block. How big an impact did all the scry in that set have?Larcenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637510675812632748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87319010118334057092018-01-29T19:56:44.209-05:002018-01-29T19:56:44.209-05:00What if we do a set number and make it combat dama...What if we do a set number and make it combat damage to an opponent?Doug Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11099708938705613144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-82099537471975261382018-01-29T17:50:11.051-05:002018-01-29T17:50:11.051-05:00:) I know what you mean. I actually like the chall...:) I know what you mean. I actually like the challenge of designing clear reminder text that works in English separate to designing unambiguous rules-functional text.<br /><br />But yes, super much so, it's usually a mistake to write something that looks like rules text but isn't, I'm only suggesting it *might* work, I agree it's not usually a good direction.Jack (cartesiandaemon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08258267965242039995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-48744295125121611592018-01-29T17:10:53.993-05:002018-01-29T17:10:53.993-05:00Oh. I often forget that reminder text is just that...Oh. I often forget that reminder text is just that. Yes, we could have an ability like Wobbles' describes that handles all the weirdness in the rules and just has to get enough of the idea across to players to get them on the right track. Man, I can get so caught up on finding independently-functional text for the keyword.<br /><br />I will say that this reminder text looks too much like something that makes sense on its own and will be interpreted as I did without further thought (by some players). We'd need something that makes it clearer there's something larger/different going on.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-52031861431351093882018-01-29T15:57:12.091-05:002018-01-29T15:57:12.091-05:00Yeah. I guess part of it is that you can imagine t...Yeah. I guess part of it is that you can imagine that wording being costed more expensively, but being worth it, whereas the original scry wording has the problem that even for scry 1, the creature needs to be quite expensive, but it needs to be very expensive if it may occasionally get enchanted and start repeatedly scrying for 4.<br /><br />Also, this version should probably be combat damage to players only as well, even if that's less lifelink-like.<br /><br />And I guess this is often scry 1, it's only better when it's a card you want that's less than the cut-off. I almost wonder if it should *not* be scry, as in, if it doesn't fit the requirement, you don't get a choice about it -- but you'd need a way for people to not feel cheated in that case.Jack (cartesiandaemon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08258267965242039995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-23965842213110299032018-01-29T15:42:42.690-05:002018-01-29T15:42:42.690-05:00There are definitely problems making that ability ...There are definitely problems making that ability work, but I think Wobbles' wording *may* work: the comprehensive rules specifies that you scry X for the number of creatures, but it doesn't trigger multiple times; and the reminder text makes it clear by implication that it doesn't stack.Jack (cartesiandaemon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08258267965242039995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-74304388645166811782018-01-29T15:28:53.044-05:002018-01-29T15:28:53.044-05:00Since the trigger resolving sets in stone which ca...Since the trigger resolving sets in stone which card is the top of your lib… oh. That's why it says "top unrevealed card." Iiinteresting.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-11232020203785845522018-01-29T15:27:13.031-05:002018-01-29T15:27:13.031-05:00"Fatetouch creatures dealing combat damage al..."Fatetouch creatures dealing combat damage also causes you to scry one more."Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-32476820656262494402018-01-29T15:24:46.203-05:002018-01-29T15:24:46.203-05:00Jay, this isn't necessarily true. You'd wa...Jay, this isn't necessarily true. You'd want this to work more like Ascend where multiple creatures having the ability doesn't result in multiple triggers because it's not a triggered ability. Instead it's an conditional event that happens as happens if Fatetouch attackers or blockers are declared. Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-43270186730509971442018-01-29T15:14:27.526-05:002018-01-29T15:14:27.526-05:00Yes. You always have the option of just putting it...Yes. You always have the option of just putting it on the bottom of the library, kinda like Sphinx of Jwar Isle. If the library is shuffled the Revealed cards go away.Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-47713100974964476932018-01-29T15:09:54.762-05:002018-01-29T15:09:54.762-05:00"When this creature attacks, scry 0. Whenever..."When this creature attacks, scry 0. Whenever you would scry X, instead scry X+1."<br /><br />...yeah, I'm trolling, but that's the kind of templating it would take.lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-2250395772195454932018-01-29T14:54:45.992-05:002018-01-29T14:54:45.992-05:00"At any time?"
Is the intention that you..."At any time?"<br />Is the intention that you can finish resolving it later in the round?Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-65980922404977664692018-01-29T14:52:45.618-05:002018-01-29T14:52:45.618-05:00Whenever ~ deals combat damage, look at the top ca...Whenever ~ deals combat damage, look at the top card of your library. If its CMC is <= the damage dealt, put it into your hand. Otherwise, you may put it on the bottom of your library.<br /><br />Now it's card <i>advantage</i>, and yet it still feels fairer.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-73471565212749462582018-01-29T14:49:59.549-05:002018-01-29T14:49:59.549-05:00This is one of the problems with the way Magic han...This is one of the problems with the way Magic handles triggers: This ability would scry X where X is the number of fatetouch creatures that did you had do combat, but <i>each</i> of them would scry X because all those triggers are independent.<br /><br />Maybe a replacement effect could do the job?Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-49348213868887287802018-01-29T13:09:27.154-05:002018-01-29T13:09:27.154-05:00Yeah. I realised that scry didn't stack well: ...Yeah. I realised that scry didn't stack well: I tried to make a scry lord AGES ago and tacked on an awkward ability to let you combine multiple instances.<br /><br />But even though I sort of knew how good scry 2 was, I hadn't thought of it so starkly as "scry 1 is a nice small bonus, scry 2 is usually too good" until wobbles said so.Jack (cartesiandaemon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08258267965242039995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-34171532465858679642018-01-29T12:58:34.035-05:002018-01-29T12:58:34.035-05:00I'd actually never realized how scry 2 is bett...I'd actually never realized how scry 2 is better than "scry 1, then scry 1". This is kind of cool.lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-5324575373103921092018-01-29T12:25:23.397-05:002018-01-29T12:25:23.397-05:00This is a good point. I wonder if there's a mo...This is a good point. I wonder if there's a more explicit way to work Scry so that it doesn't just stop the game. <br /><br />Maybe something like: <br /><br />Looklink (When this deals damage, reveal the top unrevealed card of your library. You may put any card revealed this way facedown on the bottom of your library at any time.)Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-42823636687890001132018-01-29T11:56:02.372-05:002018-01-29T11:56:02.372-05:00I also dislike the logistic issue. Lifelink and In...I also dislike the logistic issue. Lifelink and Infect just need you to log some numbers, having to fiddle with your library repeatedly is a time sink, its why Top was Banned.Jim Harborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15420559252122305117noreply@blogger.com