tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post5984014248324017789..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Reinventing Alpha, Part 3: Putting the Band back TogetherUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-12954096033309774542011-03-20T05:49:06.002-04:002011-03-20T05:49:06.002-04:00My first impulse would be to make Regeneration as ...My first impulse would be to make Regeneration as simple as possible and not to tap, but that might make it too strong or hard to get around. I think the lesson of the GDS2, however, is that this sort of decision really has to rely upon playtesting.Jonathan Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02594128890226676164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78414714354473864962011-03-17T00:30:04.039-04:002011-03-17T00:30:04.039-04:00I feel like tapping captures the flavor of "f...I feel like tapping captures the flavor of "fleeing" better than exile does. Exile is just clunkier, causing a change of zone and a trigger to be remembered. Also, this would make auras granting regeneration work very poorly!HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-6639119428473693682011-03-17T00:07:55.416-04:002011-03-17T00:07:55.416-04:00For regeneration, why not just change it to "...For regeneration, why not just change it to "The next time ~ would be destroyed this turn, instead exile it. Return it to the battlefield under your control at end of turn." It cuts out some design space, but solves the ground stall and first strike problems while being flavorful as fleeing to recuperate.<br />That said, I really like what you've done with protection and shroud.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-342379611413529952011-03-16T10:57:34.028-04:002011-03-16T10:57:34.028-04:00@Daniel - Regenerate doesn't need to be strong...@Daniel - Regenerate doesn't need to be stronger. It's rare because it's too good at creating ground stalls, which leads to slow games. Getting rid of the tap clause would only exacerbate that problem.<br /><br />@Ethan - That's exactly what I mean. Single cards like Serra Angel and Ball Lightning can give players experience with Vigilance and Haste without keywording them. Then they can acquire keywords in later editions.<br /><br />I think white can demonstrate its "little guys working together" spirit with cards in the vein of Infantry Veteran, Blinding Mage, and Inspired Charge. I'm reluctant to add new keywords, since we've already got a ton.HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-85930629836786733512011-03-16T02:31:04.181-04:002011-03-16T02:31:04.181-04:00I don't think it needs the X limitation. The b...I don't think it needs the X limitation. The benefit of creating a single unit WITHOUT allowing you to assign damage priority is minimal. No reason to limit it more.Jeff Petersenhttp://tumblrmagnet.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-53859086089523397332011-03-15T17:42:50.484-04:002011-03-15T17:42:50.484-04:00I like the 'Banner-Bearer' idea listed abo...I like the 'Banner-Bearer' idea listed above. I'd suggest 'Banner-Bearer X' to allow X other creatures to attack with the Banner-Bearing creature.VanVeldinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03441999455333315750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-82179713468523425032011-03-15T16:55:23.141-04:002011-03-15T16:55:23.141-04:00Keywording anything that only appears on a single ...Keywording anything that only appears on a single card seems generally unnecessary. I agree that Banding as it's currently worded is too hard to remember, but it should be replaced with something like Battle Cry or something similar. Banding gave white a very strong color definition, and has influences white design to the present day.Ethanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13547113476731173631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-1825037942680286892011-03-15T16:50:38.801-04:002011-03-15T16:50:38.801-04:00I understand where you're coming from on regen...I understand where you're coming from on regenerate, but I still think it should lose the tap rider. Given the penalty for keeping mana open, I'm content to grant extra value to regenerate (especially considering how rare it's become in current design - there were 7 creatures with regen in 6th, 3 in 2010, but only 1 in 2011). <br /><br />It also gives extra meaning to the rider "can't be regenerated" which I'd argue is a valuable design tool in differentiating removal cards.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417959233780755818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-61734237327113676162011-03-15T14:19:12.992-04:002011-03-15T14:19:12.992-04:00I'm not sure I agree. Messy templating ahoy!
...I'm not sure I agree. Messy templating ahoy!<br /><br />Banner-bearer (Any number of creatures may attack with this one as a single unit. If any creature in the unit may be blocked, the entire unit is blocked.)<br /><br />Command (If this creature is attacking or blocking in a unit with other creatures, you choose how all damage is assigned to your creatures.)Jeff Petersenhttp://tumblrmagnet.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81733337920864141112011-03-15T14:06:41.703-04:002011-03-15T14:06:41.703-04:00Like you, I really wish Banding could be made to w...Like you, I really wish Banding could be made to work well. But I think it's a lost cause. The closest we're going to get is things like Exalted and Battle Cry.HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-2743310476005555052011-03-15T13:42:30.976-04:002011-03-15T13:42:30.976-04:00If it only requires one creature, yeah. Actually, ...If it only requires one creature, yeah. Actually, even on attack that might not be overpowered. You get one pseudo large creature, yeah, but it can still be chumped.<br /><br />Then the ability would less be a group of soldiers working together and more one guy commanding a rag-tag group for some benefit.<br /><br />Say:<br /><br />Command (Any number of creatures may attack or block with this one as a single unit. If any creature in the unit could be blocked, the entire unit may be. Controller chooses how all combat damage is assigned, overriding priority.)<br /><br />It's powerful, still, but perhaps justified at higher rarities.<br /><br />Actually, it could still be split into two abilities. One allowing you to create a group and the other allowing you to override damage assignment.Jeff Petersenhttp://tumblrmagnet.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-1331679639167527112011-03-15T13:27:56.451-04:002011-03-15T13:27:56.451-04:00Pretty sure removing the any-number-of-creatures-w...Pretty sure removing the any-number-of-creatures-with-banding-plus-one would make a huge difference. If it's only creatures with banding or if it's any number of creatures (and there's never any such thing as bands with others), it's much simpler. Not perfect, but better.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-69329392142844977392011-03-15T12:55:47.978-04:002011-03-15T12:55:47.978-04:00I think Banding isn't as bad an ability as mos...I think Banding isn't as bad an ability as most people make it out to be. It's confusing as written, yes, but that's also largely because it's a combination of two different abilities, one that works on attack, the other on defense.<br /><br />Now, I'm not sure if separating them out would allow you to fix the confusing templating, but it may be worth trying, especially for the defensive one, since it doesn't require more than one creature with the ability.<br /><br />(I admit I have a bit of a soft spot for it, since Banding is just about the best combat ability in the game. Having complete control over damage assignment is huge.)<br /><br />Of course, even with a fix, Banding probably isn't justified in a remade alpha.Jeff Petersenhttp://tumblrmagnet.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88067797517735699512011-03-15T11:51:29.240-04:002011-03-15T11:51:29.240-04:00I'll talk next week about implementation and k...I'll talk next week about implementation and keywording. The short version is that I plan to sneak all (or almost all) of those abilities into Alpha, but not always with keywords. Serra Angel was an excellent poster child for Vigilance.<br /><br />The point of tapping with regeneration is to allow the other player's removal to have a reduced effect instead of none at all. Bolt your guy, swing with mine.<br /><br />The image of an Uthden Troll regenerating and beating up a White Knight warms the cockles of my heart. First Strike is already a "trump" creature ability that nullifies Deathtouch, Lifelink, Trample, etc. so think Regeneration beating it is fine.<br /><br />I thought long and hard about the Wrath problem, and couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution. The closest I came was a variant of Indestructible: "X effects that say 'destroy' don't destroy this creature." I believe that this does not create horrible rules issues, but it does cause other problems. First, we get the destroy vs. sacrifice/exile/put on top of library issues that make Indestructible appear infrequently. Also, we end up with White Knight surviving Damnation but not Mutilate. It's just not worth it.HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-52727104160574662602011-03-15T10:18:52.068-04:002011-03-15T10:18:52.068-04:00Oh, and I very much like what you did with Protect...Oh, and I very much like what you did with Protection (though I don't think Smite should exist outside of a single expansion block), except that I would like new Protection to also solve the Wrath problem. It's terribly confusing to new players that Swords to Plowshares can't hurt their Black Knight but Wrath of God can. The two most obvious solutions aren't great, so I'd love to hear a better one: Either Protection X says that the protected permanent can't be affected by X spells; or global effects all still use the targeting template, "Destroy all target creatures." Guh, now my mouth tastes bad.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-56883078762737926172011-03-15T10:13:12.908-04:002011-03-15T10:13:12.908-04:00I agree with almost all of this. I don't think...I agree with almost all of this. I don't think the first set needs half of these abilities (particularly not haste, troll-shroud or quick) and I'd like to see more discussion around how many abilities <i>should</i> make into the first Magic set.<br /><br />I don't think it makes sense to cause a regenerated creature to become tapped but not to remove it from combat. The tapping clause has no effect on an attacking creature and is only relevant on a defending creature in a multiplayer free-for-all game. The removed-from-combat clause is a bit confusing, but without it a creature can be slain by a first-striker and still fight back which just feels strange. I'd say all or nothing.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.com