tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post8477458548623229337..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Weekend Design Challenge 083118 - No Judge Free-for-All II: Free-er for More than AllUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-44615820689458264122018-09-06T21:50:03.119-04:002018-09-06T21:50:03.119-04:00I like the second version here a lot.
Opening thi...I like the second version here a lot.<br /><br />Opening this up to any instant/sorcery avoids the parasitism of arcane, which was one of that mechanic's problems. The "cast this, then cast this other thing" play pattern seems fun as well. Nice!<br /><br />About the individual submitted card: This would be a very strong common, as killing two 2 drops (at instant speed!) is great. The Ravnica jump start Direct Current version is 3 mana sorcery 2 damage, and the flashback instant (Fires of Undeath) goes 2R -> 5B. So should this be 3R for 2 damage?<br /><br />Possibly costing these will be difficult though.. You want cheap costs so that you can cast this + another spell, but the value inherit to casting your spell a second time wants these to be expensive. <br /><br />Maybe a bunch of cheap spells with small, not quite real card effects?<br /><br />Say R for 1 damage, U for tap.<br />Is it still 1U for draw? (Cheaper than Think Twice).<br /><br />Also, does this work for sorceries? I think right now you couldn't cast them as the stack wouldn't be empty. Could do "When you cast another instant or sorcery, until end of turn you may cast this card from your graveyard, then exile it." But that doesn't have the same chaining feel.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092873827313087213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-23592974077617685212018-09-06T21:31:34.958-04:002018-09-06T21:31:34.958-04:00@zeferral - yeah, I kind of got the idea from Epic...@zeferral - yeah, I kind of got the idea from Epic which lets you cast any card but uses revealing the same color card as a way to ge ta bonus. <br /><br />The main issue with {B/D} (and possible discard/exile graveyard versions) is whether it is too color pie breaking. You could have a few 5 color cards in hand which would let you cast all of your spells. But maybe that's a reasonable cost? You probably want to cast those 5 color spells at some point anyway.<br /><br />Likewise, would there be decks that play all {B/D} cards and all colorless sources? As a major set theme this could be encouraged. As a helper/filter mechanic, it might be discouraged.<br /><br />@Jay - Agreed that holding cards in hand can be bad. But I think this is much more interesting than eg Kamigawa hands size matters cards or Maros, where the scaling effects encourage me to keep lots of cards in hand. If I have 1 swamp in play and a 4{B/D}{B/D} card in my hand (or deck), I may hold on to another black spell until I cast the {B/D} card or draw another swamp. But I hope that is an interesting decision rather than an unfun play pattern.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092873827313087213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-74112716885878566562018-09-06T21:14:01.719-04:002018-09-06T21:14:01.719-04:00Discarding cards is also an interesting idea Enzio...Discarding cards is also an interesting idea Enzio! <br /><br />Another take that might be interesting would be exiling cards from your graveyard to pay for colored pips - eg, exiling black cards to pay for black costs. Could be easier to develop than delve - if it left the generic mana part of the cost.<br /><br />I think both of these cost reduction mechanics are very spikey though. Especially discarding cards! It does seem harsh. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15092873827313087213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-59316922199143595962018-09-05T14:39:37.668-04:002018-09-05T14:39:37.668-04:00You're right, it should probably be flipped
G...You're right, it should probably be flipped<br /><br />Glacial Vengence 1R<br />Instant (c)<br />Glacial Vengence deals 2 damage to any target.<br />Call Back (When you cast another instant or sorcery, you may cast this from your graveyard. Then exile this card.) Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-48328139981231284422018-09-04T10:37:48.688-04:002018-09-04T10:37:48.688-04:00This reminded me of pitch cards, and I lie how the...This reminded me of pitch cards, and I lie how they use matching color cards to stand in for paying colored mana. Then I wondered, what if these WERE a twist on pitch cards, letting you ditch a card matching the mana symbol in exchange for paying the colored cost? I kind of like that if just a reveal might not be enough. Feels like a super spiky mechanic though. I love that but not everyone does. It also might just be too much for only paying colored pips whereas a reveal is a little less harsh.Enziohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155129964324823831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-69629792793130932892018-09-04T10:06:29.751-04:002018-09-04T10:06:29.751-04:00Yeah, a two drop would be another interesting plac...Yeah, a two drop would be another interesting place to be:<br /><br />Reddish Smasher (common)<br />1{R/D}<br />Creature - Human Warrior<br />{B/D} can be paid as paying {1} and revealing a black card from your hand or by paying {B}.<br />Haste<br />2/1<br /><br />This asks the full question of whether this is a big color pie break.<br />Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14318011531403551812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-32139466200016807132018-09-04T09:30:35.291-04:002018-09-04T09:30:35.291-04:00This seems remarkably powerful for common. Is the ...This seems remarkably powerful for common. Is the wording intended to mean that the user can cast a sorcery from the graveyard as an instant if the triggering spell is also an instant, as in this example.<br /><br />It feels like it needs some sort of restraining factor. Maybe the spell must be the same converted mana cost or less? So you can't chain a plink spell like this into casting a Wrath spell from your graveyard.Larcenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637510675812632748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-634288575350495582018-09-04T00:56:32.815-04:002018-09-04T00:56:32.815-04:00Glacial Vengence 1R
Instant (c)
Glacial Vengence d...Glacial Vengence 1R<br />Instant (c)<br />Glacial Vengence deals 2 damage to any target.<br />Call Back (You may cast another instant or sorcery from your graveyard. Then exile that card.) <br /><br />A bit of a take on Arcane after seeing some of the Ravnica Spoilers. This allows you to piggyback a spell you've already cast onto a new card provided you have enough mana. I also like how you can chain these in the late game provided you have enough mana. Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-41091054836336664042018-09-04T00:40:45.693-04:002018-09-04T00:40:45.693-04:00Converge, Domain and Sunburst play in this space b...Converge, Domain and Sunburst play in this space by mostly enhancing the spell/creatures main effect or size. I know you gain things by splitting off different effects (It's Tek!), but I'm not sure how much design space that has. Particularly if they're all 5 color, I'm worried you're going to run out of design space fast. Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-37978449356072846642018-09-04T00:35:54.953-04:002018-09-04T00:35:54.953-04:00I see what you're going for here, and while I ...I see what you're going for here, and while I like the idea of "subzones" on the battlefield, it's important to remember that Flying already covers a lot of this mechanical space. Flying also has the advantage of being baked into the rules to the point where it's parasitism isn't quite so problematic for development.Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-54200915681250187302018-09-03T14:57:46.311-04:002018-09-03T14:57:46.311-04:00This is definitely harder to abuse than Phyrexian ...This is definitely harder to abuse than Phyrexian mana.<br />It's problematic that it asks you to hold cards in your hand, but <i>in theory</i> you should get the mana you need as your hand empties.<br /><br />If we're going to do this, I'd expect all the black mana symbols to be reveal-hybrid: 1{B/D}{B/D} (where you need to reveal different cards to pay for multiple mana).Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-50565845787239054652018-09-03T13:54:08.088-04:002018-09-03T13:54:08.088-04:00That's a fun and weird place to play in. Is re...That's a fun and weird place to play in. Is revealing a black card enough of a hoop to jump through to say this doesn't circumvent color pie the way Phyrexian mana did? The traditional way of ensuring that you weren't cheating on your mana base was to check if you had a land of the appropriate type, but that doesn't quite fit here. <br /><br />This almost (but not really) makes me want to see a take on eternal's modified mana system, caring only that you have the appropriate number of the right type of lands, and then allowing you treat all of your lands as generating any color for the purposes of casting cards.zefferalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845251416516553492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-84319730807559135942018-09-03T02:06:47.431-04:002018-09-03T02:06:47.431-04:00Blacker Murder (common)
1{B/D}B
Instant
{B/D} can ...Blacker Murder (common)<br />1{B/D}B<br />Instant<br />{B/D} can be paid as paying {1} and revealing a black card from your hand or by paying {B}.<br />Target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14318011531403551812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-4771420459292794972018-09-02T12:46:34.926-04:002018-09-02T12:46:34.926-04:00I have a project that I’m doing some initial work ...I have a project that I’m doing some initial work on. I’ll have an article about it at some point. :) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15941977219304581236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-8071936171113137132018-09-02T11:38:33.900-04:002018-09-02T11:38:33.900-04:00I considered the Renown/Undying solution but one o...I considered the Renown/Undying solution but one of the other mechanical themes of the set is about creatures also growing larger, represented by an ability that gives them counters whenever they're targeted by spells or abilities. Keeping counters off of fecund and token creatures is a way of trying to keep those themes distinct from each other (especially because both are very present in green).Larcenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637510675812632748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-6992766990631955172018-09-02T10:07:11.285-04:002018-09-02T10:07:11.285-04:00Really like the red base electrohelix, it does not...Really like the red base electrohelix, it does not feel so under rate if you just have a single color. Drawing 1 card for 3 Mana feels really weak even if at instant.Doug Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11099708938705613144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-5057559463111086062018-09-01T20:28:13.049-04:002018-09-01T20:28:13.049-04:00#4 is very much along the lines of Pokemon GX.#4 is very much along the lines of Pokemon GX.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-22012381822980794122018-09-01T18:20:51.007-04:002018-09-01T18:20:51.007-04:00Jay's second version doesn't allow you to ...Jay's second version doesn't allow you to cast sorceries at instant speed. It just gives a card in your graveyard pseudo-flashback for the turn, so it still has to adhere to regular timing restrictionsIsaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032882984602067306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-25599522915409306262018-09-01T18:16:48.814-04:002018-09-01T18:16:48.814-04:00Oh whoops, I think I mixed up the two variants in ...Oh whoops, I think I mixed up the two variants in my head... Still think it's a good variant to consider though, since it gets rid of the memory issues.<br /><br />Jay's variant does too, assuming there aren't any/too many cards placing +1/+1 counters in a different way in the same set.Isaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032882984602067306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-90700289325456687382018-09-01T17:04:30.289-04:002018-09-01T17:04:30.289-04:00Yes, number two gets around casting other color ca...Yes, number two gets around casting other color cards for 2R. But it doesn't feel as cool to me. Also you shouldn't be able to cast sorceries at instant speed.Marcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15014244171544036129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-21561832049738223702018-09-01T16:37:43.813-04:002018-09-01T16:37:43.813-04:00Similar:
Burning Recollection 2R
Instant (Uncommo...Similar:<br /><br />Burning Recollection 2R<br />Instant (Uncommon)<br /><i>Reminisce</i> — Choose one:<br />• Burning Recollection deals 3 damage to any target.<br />• Cast a card with converted mana cost 3 from your graveyard without paying its mana cost.<br /><br />Burning Recollection 2R<br />Instant (Uncommon)<br />Burning Recollection deals 3 damage to any target.<br />Reminisce <i>(Exile this card from your hand: You may cast a card with converted mana cost 3 from your graveyard this turn.)</i>Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-74550915224236073512018-09-01T16:32:32.692-04:002018-09-01T16:32:32.692-04:00It's marginally stronger in multiplayer, but r...It's marginally stronger in multiplayer, but removing "defending player controls" makes it read easier. You could add 'you may' to prevent it from tapping your own stuff.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-84230219850737884332018-09-01T16:30:41.647-04:002018-09-01T16:30:41.647-04:00Isao's Fecund is functionally the same as the ...Isao's Fecund is functionally the same as the original. Either way, you end up with two copies of the creature, one of which can self-replicate and the other cannot.<br /><br />Another option, ala renown:<br /><br />Fecund (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, if it doesn't have a +1/+1 counter on it, put one on it and create a token copy of it.)Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81187405614137117262018-09-01T15:47:24.817-04:002018-09-01T15:47:24.817-04:00I agree about the restrictiveness of the full 5-co...I agree about the restrictiveness of the full 5-color designs. That's essentially the reason I only have one card that counts the colors of mana spent to cast it. There's really not much you can do after that one, but that one design does end up in a cool Cruel-Ultimatum-esque space.<br /><br />Do you all think having 5 colors on the counterspell/pump spell versions are as restrictive, since you're not necessarily forcing someone to play multiple colors or spend multiple types of mana?<br /><br />As for the dialed back version, one issue I struggled with was which color should be the mandatory version. Do you think this version of ElectroHelix read or play better?<br /><br />ElectroHelix - 2R<br />Instant<br />Deal 2 damage to any target.<br />Prism - This spell gains the following abilities if the corresponding color of mana was spent to cast it:<br />W: Gain 2 life.<br />U: Draw a card.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02090253014943762842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-85797148689035112862018-09-01T15:14:36.155-04:002018-09-01T15:14:36.155-04:00I think I look at it through a different lens. It ...I think I look at it through a different lens. It grants evasion because the original concept was to make an evasion mechanic in a world that didn't have flying, but I actually don't just look at it as just an evasion mechanic. I almost considering it kind of a cheaty new zone without the muss or fuss of actually creating one. I think of it as basically a new "space" on the battlefield. It's also like a creature status, like monstrosity, that you don't track with counters or a threshold or anything, but rather its position on the battlefield. If I'm honest, I'm not exactly sure of all the ways this can be used. Maybe it's not to its potential attached to the shadow evasion in the first place (like I said, I just coopted the inspiration since I was trying to find an evasion mechanic for an underwater world). Perhaps while this is an "interesting" concept there really isn't a lot to do with it that isn't just an existing ability with increased parasitism (since I believe cards will care about and manipulate it) and unnecessarily strict board maintenance. Would it be better if it was a keyword ability and the creature could switch between surfaced and submerged? I didn't want this because it seems like it would make the board quite pain to track and it would also add a lot of words to a not particularly short string of reminder text to control or limit how or when you can submerge or surface. But maybe the gameplay is more fun if that's something you can do? Is there perhaps a way to shorten things somehow with some sort of player aid, like a frame?Enziohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155129964324823831noreply@blogger.com