tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post8986579172227670659..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Weekend Design Challenge 053017—Double CyclingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-28484626395909017232017-06-07T19:01:38.831-04:002017-06-07T19:01:38.831-04:00Djapta, Who Judges 7W
Legendary Creature - Angel
...Djapta, Who Judges 7W<br />Legendary Creature - Angel<br />Cycling 2W<br />Flying<br />When you cycle CARDNAME, you may discard another card from your hand. If you do, return CARDNAME from your graveyard to your hand at eot.<br />7/7<br /><br />I know it's not particularly <i>white</i>, but in the vein of Eternal Dragon? I just keep coming back to the idea of judging cards as "worthy"/"unworthy" a la souls & feathers.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-15196114880647917322017-06-06T09:30:19.405-04:002017-06-06T09:30:19.405-04:00Another way: Investigative Doublecycling N (N, dis...Another way: Investigative Doublecycling N (N, discard this card from your hand: Investigate twice.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15941977219304581236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-44496277252302301922017-06-05T18:24:55.259-04:002017-06-05T18:24:55.259-04:00Giving every color access to instant speed, colorl...Giving every color access to instant speed, colorless divinations would be a bold design decision. Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-46482934406873265422017-06-05T17:46:55.423-04:002017-06-05T17:46:55.423-04:00Er, I mean:
Cycling—{3}, Discard a card.
When you...Er, I mean:<br /><br />Cycling—{3}, Discard a card.<br />When you cycle ~, draw an additional card.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-28825951735418392562017-06-05T17:43:46.199-04:002017-06-05T17:43:46.199-04:00A bunch of cool cards here, Artisans. Nice work.
...A bunch of cool cards here, Artisans. Nice work.<br /><br />Based on Pasteur's and Wobble's work, I think another likely execution for double cycling is:<br /><br />Cycling {3}<br />When you cycle ~, draw an additional card.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-35449564156799363582017-06-05T17:42:09.622-04:002017-06-05T17:42:09.622-04:00I love how clean this card is, and how it helps ex...I love how clean this card is, and how it helps explain the mechanic's ramifications to the player. "You can spend this card and four mana to get two new cards, or you can spend this card and another plus one mana instead."<br /><br />I think a double-cycling cost of {1}{U} (or even {U}{U} or {3}) would make the choice more interesting.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-53542554049901925292017-06-05T17:39:22.081-04:002017-06-05T17:39:22.081-04:00Tormenting Practice is Vigilance plus the option t...Tormenting Practice is <a rel="nofollow">Vigilance</a> plus the option to discard it and another card for {4}{W}{W} to get two new cards <i>and</i> return it to your hand.<br /><br />That first mode is nearly unplayable (until you account for exert), but the second mode is pure card advantage. If you have any other aura in hand, you actually get to play it and Vigilance and draw two cards, all for six mana. 6 is a lot, but letting white draw two cards and avoid mana costs feels like a double bend of the color pie to me.<br /><br />I really like how Wobbles makes the other card you cycle matter, but Wizards would definitely save that tech for the second set that uses double-cycling, as double-cycling is new and unique and interesting enough on its own (especially in the same Standard as madness).Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-52254646252600471332017-06-05T17:29:38.493-04:002017-06-05T17:29:38.493-04:00Pasteur makes an excellent argument that {2} is to...Pasteur makes an excellent argument that {2} is too easy/cheap a cost for double-cycling when that's all <a rel="nofollow">Tormenting Voice</a> does for {1}{R}.<br /><br />Sun's Judgment is a weak rare for duels, as a <a rel="nofollow">Blazing Volley</a> or <a rel="nofollow">Lava Spike</a> for for triple the price, but that could be fixed by dropping a {R} from the cost, lowering the rarity, and/or adding "or both" to the choice.<br /><br />What's more interesting is how Brian executed double cycling. You can single-cycle for {R}, or you can upgrade that and cycle any other card as well for {2}{R} total. Assuming we want that much choice/granularity, that does look like a very <i>Magic</i>-y way to do it.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-37299554789447104712017-06-05T17:23:59.822-04:002017-06-05T17:23:59.822-04:00This looks like a real card. I can absolutely see ...This looks like a real card. I can absolutely see that first line on a common sorcery at this price, and cycling gives it some added value in the late game.<br /><br />Even if we're all wrong about doublecycling being worth two mana, it's not like that's a fair judgment of designers. Costing and balance is Dev's domain.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-61993239982401836812017-06-05T17:21:42.528-04:002017-06-05T17:21:42.528-04:00Being able to cycle this away mitigates how narrow...Being able to cycle this away mitigates how narrow its effect is, but I don't think I'd even cast this when my opponent has fully-built one of the two rares or uncommons that actually use bricks, because it still doesn't destroy them and it only does 3 damage. For 2R?<br /><br />I guess we treat double-cycling as this card's true purpose and everything else as trinket text for flavor.<br /><br />Another {2} cost to turn your two worst cards in hand into two new cards from your deck. We're officially trending now.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-79531340887766742332017-06-05T17:17:50.105-04:002017-06-05T17:17:50.105-04:00Legendary creatures always get proper names, but o...Legendary creatures always get proper names, but otherwise this playtest name indicates flavor clearly.<br /><br />This gives you a full-on <a rel="nofollow">resurrection</a> both when you first cast it, and when you embalm it. We can skip right past the concern that even without embalm of cycling, this is strictly better than <a rel="nofollow">Resurrection</a>… because white only does that for small creatures anymore. See <a rel="nofollow">Devoted Crop-Mate</a>.<br /><br />I have trouble imagining the scenario where I'd want to cycle a card this awesome away. I guess if I have no creatures in the gy, and no way to get any there soon, and I'm desperate for new cards, and I have nothing better to do with {1}{W}{W}.<br /><br />The cycling cost is both more expensive and more restrictive. This is closer to my first intuition about what double cycling would have to cost, though doing both might just make it a Constructed-only option.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-31299115524413412652017-06-05T17:11:32.717-04:002017-06-05T17:11:32.717-04:00Blue and red don't usually recur cards from th...Blue and red don't usually recur cards from the graveyard, but they can certainly grab instants and sorceries in sets that want them to. I don't think it's a huge stretch to say that about fits in <i>Amonkhet</i> thematically and with all this cycling going on.<br /><br />This card has some nice mirroring between its two uses, and its cool how one could set up another (though we may want to exile this after it resolves).<br /><br />Our second double cycling cost comes in at 2. Coincidence?Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-35947600197154091292017-06-05T16:59:18.383-04:002017-06-05T16:59:18.383-04:00I like this better than the original, even though ...I like this better than the original, even though it has the luxury of being uncommon. <a rel="nofollow">In Oketra's Name</a> gives us a conditionally useful boost with an even smaller tribal bonus, and nothing to do when it's not useful. This gives us a substantial boost, with a potentially significant tribal reward, and something awesome to do when we're creatureless.<br /><br />Our first double cycling cost comes in at 2. I suspect this is low, but let's see what others thought.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-90009190860668743102017-06-05T08:52:21.681-04:002017-06-05T08:52:21.681-04:00I think this is going to be almost easier spelled ...I think this is going to be almost easier spelled out? Especially with the U/B enablers working on cycle-or-discard:<br /><br />Sun's Judgment 1RR<br />Sorcery (r)<br />Choose one —<br />• Sun’s Judgment deals 3 damage to each player.<br />• Sun’s Judgment deals 1 damage to each creature.<br />Cycling R <br />When you cast or cycle Sun’s Judgment, you may pay {2} and discard a card. If you do, draw a card.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-26599388357832801822017-06-05T08:40:49.888-04:002017-06-05T08:40:49.888-04:00Solid choice, though I do think the cycling almost...Solid choice, though I do think the cycling almost certainly needs to be 1U.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87685934693602215452017-06-05T01:03:28.382-04:002017-06-05T01:03:28.382-04:00Thinker's Dilemma {3}{U}
Sorcery
Draw two card...Thinker's Dilemma {3}{U}<br />Sorcery<br />Draw two cards.<br />Doublecycling {U}droqenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860172898365406291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-40979737587384163792017-06-04T22:32:27.495-04:002017-06-04T22:32:27.495-04:00I like that fix for Torrmenting Remorse. Originall...I like that fix for Torrmenting Remorse. Originally the cycling effect could only return cards of the same type that were discarded.Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-21123076976845760842017-06-04T21:50:26.613-04:002017-06-04T21:50:26.613-04:00Your version of Tormenting Whip is definitely the ...Your version of Tormenting Whip is definitely the right way compared to my Sand's Judgment - making it a small cost itself + adding it together still dis-incentivizes lands while making X something other than 0.<br /><br />I'd like Tormenting Remorse if the uncycled version had "random" and the cycled didn't.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-82409847505416338072017-06-04T14:07:18.247-04:002017-06-04T14:07:18.247-04:00Tormenting Prophesy B
Sorcery (U)
Scry 3
Double Cy...Tormenting Prophesy B<br />Sorcery (U)<br />Scry 3<br />Double Cycling 3B<br />If you discarded a creature card when you double cycled Tormenting Prophesy, scry 3. (Do this before you draw)<br /><br />Tormenting Practice W<br />Enchantment- Aura (U)<br />Enchanted creature gain vigilance.<br />Double Cycling 4WW<br />If you discarded an aura card when you double cycled Tormenting Exercise, return that aura to the battlefield attached to target creature.Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-68234586498727126282017-06-04T11:44:34.483-04:002017-06-04T11:44:34.483-04:00Tormenting Whip R
Sorcery (U)
Deal 3 damage to tar...Tormenting Whip R<br />Sorcery (U)<br />Deal 3 damage to target tapped creature<br />Double Cycling 4R<br />When you double cycle Torrmenting Whip, deal X damage to target creature, where X is the total converted mana cost of cards discarded this way.<br /><br />Torrmenting Paralysis 3UU<br />Sorcery (U)<br />Target player skips their next untap step<br />Double Cycling 1U<br />If you discarded a permanent card in addition Torrmenting Paralysis, tap target permanent that shares a type with that card.<br /><br />Torrmenting Remorse G<br />Sorcery<br />Return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hard.<br />Double Cycling 2GG<br />When you double cycle Torrmenting Remorse, return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-32315443142881395622017-06-03T14:39:04.546-04:002017-06-03T14:39:04.546-04:00Does doublecycling really make sense at generic co...Does doublecycling really make sense at generic cost 2? It feels weird to do that after having Tormenting Voice(& its cousins) be such consistent red staples at 2CMC for so long. This was the best I could think of:<br /><br />Sand's Judgment B<br />Sorcery (u)<br />Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.<br />Doublecycling 5B.<br />When you cycle CARDNAME, put X -1/-1 counters on target creature, where X is the other discarded card’s converted mana cost.<br /><br />But then I think I found something cute enough:<br /><br />God-Pharaoh's Praises 1B<br />Sorcery (u)<br />Doublecycling 3B<br />Whenever you gain life, you may pay 2 life. If you do, return God-Pharoah’s Praises from the graveyard to its owner’s hand.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-20719038180786482772017-06-03T10:24:25.357-04:002017-06-03T10:24:25.357-04:00Till the Shefet 1G
Sorcery (C)
Search your library...Till the Shefet 1G<br />Sorcery (C)<br />Search your library for a basic land card or Desert card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.<br />Doublecycling 2Jenesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356037137564501914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-43252639495864985072017-06-03T08:52:43.037-04:002017-06-03T08:52:43.037-04:00Improvised Ammunition
2R
Sorcery - Common
Remove a...Improvised Ammunition<br />2R<br />Sorcery - Common<br />Remove all brick counters from targer permanent. CARDNAME deals damage to target opponent equal to the number of brick counters removed in this way.<br />Doublecycling 2Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15941977219304581236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-73529111342155199732017-06-02T16:33:44.242-04:002017-06-02T16:33:44.242-04:00Master Embalmer 2WW
...Master Embalmer 2WW<br /><br />Leyendary Creature - Human Cleric (M)<br /><br />When enters to the battlefield or you embalm Master Embalmer, return target creature from your graveyard to the battlefield.<br /><br />DoubleCycling 1WW<br /><br />Embalm 2WW<br /> 2/3<br />Ecoabismo?https://www.blogger.com/profile/00773209455155237948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-27372749873982499042017-06-02T15:51:50.301-04:002017-06-02T15:51:50.301-04:00Reclamation Storm 2UR
Instant - uncommon
You may ...Reclamation Storm 2UR<br />Instant - uncommon <br />You may return up to two instants or sorceries from your graveyard to your hand. <br /><br />Double Cycling: 2 (you may pay the cycling cost twice, and discard an additional card to draw an additional card ) <br /><br />When you cycle reclamation storm, target spell in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10321576033161368881noreply@blogger.com