tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post974117360300822001..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: CCDD 052015—Access the MachineUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-91436478908725729702015-05-22T13:24:21.003-04:002015-05-22T13:24:21.003-04:00Feels too far to me.Feels too far to me.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-74507462861892930142015-05-22T06:38:21.815-04:002015-05-22T06:38:21.815-04:00Hah! Yep. Although, I think referencing a new type...Hah! Yep. Although, I think referencing a new type/keyword is antithetical to the mechanic.Basshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796834860620921124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87386299895057083142015-05-21T13:51:53.270-04:002015-05-21T13:51:53.270-04:00Could we go a step further and have the second abi...Could we go a step further and have the second ability spell out that it <b><i>IS</i></b> what happens?<br /><br />e.g.<br /><br />Access granted -- Granting ~ access to the Machine, means it gets +3/+0 and can’t be blocked until end of turn.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-72968384700126293752015-05-21T13:48:24.295-04:002015-05-21T13:48:24.295-04:00While this approach gets closer to normal magic te...While this approach gets closer to normal magic templating, I think it loses some of the essence of the mechanic. Nothing new happens when you Access the Machine because you were already activating each of those abilities every turn.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78091768310326912322015-05-21T13:45:13.809-04:002015-05-21T13:45:13.809-04:00Shoulders of Giants is another one, but between th...<a href="http://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2014/06/tesla-work-in-progress.html?showComment=1404328372784#c494716668691433602" rel="nofollow">Shoulders of Giants</a> is another one, but between the three I think we've eaten up most of the design space.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-42600904102421369852015-05-21T13:11:02.451-04:002015-05-21T13:11:02.451-04:00I'll take that as one vote in favor of Aetherw...I'll take that as one vote in favor of Aetherwork.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-84335627321445774082015-05-21T12:10:04.240-04:002015-05-21T12:10:04.240-04:00The more I think about it, the more I feel this wh...The more I think about it, the more I feel this whole mechanic just wants to be "artifact-fall" and the desire to make it seem super-new and cool is making a busted, overly-complex, impossible to develop mechanic that, like Storm or Dredge, looks like it does nothing and for new players will be aggravating, but expert players will break open like a kinder egg of delicious contraband.Basshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796834860620921124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-11876417779613658092015-05-21T11:45:18.756-04:002015-05-21T11:45:18.756-04:00I should say — this is still completely insane in ...I should say — this is still completely insane in terms of board complexity, but might be fun.Basshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796834860620921124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-67305611562361235792015-05-21T11:44:03.921-04:002015-05-21T11:44:03.921-04:00The theme feels too cyberpunk-y to me. "Acces...The theme feels too cyberpunk-y to me. "Access the machine" feels like something you'd do in the Matrix.<br /><br />I dunno. I keep trying to look at this in the fun, "hey, I built an engine thing!" but the problem is, I don't build an engine because it's so parasitic. It's like, "Hey! I get to spend all my mana on a deck you built!"<br /><br />How about if Accessing the machine triggered all "activated abilities on artifacts you control"?<br /><br />To keep it less insane, it could be;<br />7: Rig the engine. (When you rig the engine, activate all activated abilities on artifacts you control without paying their mana costs. You must pay any other costs. Rig the engine only as a sorcery.)<br /><br />This seems to me a modular way of doing this in a pretty cool way that shouldn't be too busted with things that need to tap or sacrifice themselves (like Nevinyrral's Disk or Door to Nothingness). And at common, you make it so only mana costs are on artifacts, no tap or sacrifice abilities. The name feels more steampunk-y ("Assemble the contraption" would be perfect).Basshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796834860620921124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-75762393452626233372015-05-21T10:58:00.913-04:002015-05-21T10:58:00.913-04:00If we can find super-irregular templating for it t...If we can find super-irregular templating for it that's clear enough, and distinct enough, it could help sell the mechanic and the set, ala Level-Up and DFCs. I still would only want to do it if we thought we could re-use that templating for other mechanics; if it opened up a new vein of design space for the game. <a href="http://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2013/01/ccdd-011413coordinate.html" rel="nofollow">Coordinate</a> is one example, but I'm not sure there are many more, if any.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-74132410251713757032015-05-21T10:50:39.691-04:002015-05-21T10:50:39.691-04:00Fascinating and very cool how "grant…to"...Fascinating and very cool how "grant…to" conveys the concept that granting access is what Access the Machine does, and all it does. I'd want to shorten this, but there's real potential here:<br /><br />Electrophasomancer 2U<br />Creature- Human Artificer (C)<br />Energize <i>({7}: Grant energy to each permanent you control.)</i><br />Whenever Electrophasomancer is granted energy, it gets +3/+0 and can’t be blocked until end of turn.<br />1/3<br /><br />Electrophasomancer 2U<br />Creature- Human Artificer (C)<br />{7}: Empower each permanent you control.<br />Whenever Electrophasomancer is empowered, it gets +3/+0 and can’t be blocked until end of turn.<br />1/3<br /><br />Hmm. I think that second one loses some of the clarity of the original. The difference seems to be how much our action sounds like it does something on its own?Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-52680663678626644632015-05-21T10:28:32.332-04:002015-05-21T10:28:32.332-04:00Untapping a bunch of artifacts definitely adds boa...Untapping a bunch of artifacts definitely adds board complexity. Two of the five other mechanics I proposed do too. But if that's your concern, use one of the other three.<br /><br />I actually quite like {7}: Draw a card. It nails the flavor, reads really well, helps a long game end, and isn't an ability you're going to use every single turn, since you need that mana to cast some of the cards you've drawn.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-73400396166410247862015-05-21T10:20:41.310-04:002015-05-21T10:20:41.310-04:00Monstrosity puts counters on your creature. There ...Monstrosity puts counters on your creature. There are a bunch of commons with just monstrosity.<br /><br />There are <i>no</i> do-nothing mechanics in Magic's history.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-15695454747124889012015-05-20T21:15:11.594-04:002015-05-20T21:15:11.594-04:00Another wording suggestion based off of Astrolobe&...Another wording suggestion based off of Astrolobe's wording:<br /><br />Electrophasomancer {2}{U}<br />Creature- Human Artificer (C)<br />Access the Machine ({7}: Grant access to the Machine to each permanent you control.)<br />Access granted -- Whenever Electrophasomancer is granted access to the Machine, it gets +3/+0 and can’t be blocked until end of turn.<br />1/4Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05070477543367469910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-69982642433390689332015-05-20T20:36:04.445-04:002015-05-20T20:36:04.445-04:00Jules I explored this kind of templating quite a l...Jules I explored this kind of templating quite a lot.<br /><br />http://imgur.com/a/Fe5GJ<br /><br />However I eventually came to the conclusion that the super irregular templating wasn't worth the complexity.<br />Unlike something like Levelers this is more suited to a minor theme of a set, not a intergral part of it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05070477543367469910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88273200354078886132015-05-20T20:32:08.208-04:002015-05-20T20:32:08.208-04:00also note that this version removes the NWO board ...also note that this version removes the NWO board complexity that untapping everything adds.<br /><br />Though this comes back to the reminder text version that you posted initially...<br />Which is the version I'm increasingly liking, its fine under NWO, keeps the great flavor and I realise that magic has done "do nothing" mechanics before in Monsterous. Being monsterous doesn't do anything, but trigger other things and this is in a similar situation that while reading slightly odd should be a lot more grokkable than any of the solutions here.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05070477543367469910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-69347542733273664412015-05-20T19:49:47.170-04:002015-05-20T19:49:47.170-04:00If you wanted to make it less parasitic, you could...If you wanted to make it less parasitic, you could center the mechanic around untapping artifacts. <br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />From here you could have a theme in a set be artifacts that tap for abilities without mana costs (Maybe a cycle with alternate costs). For example:<br />Research Library 5<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Draw a card. <br />Bola Launcher 4<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Tap target creature.<br />Mana Radar 3<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Add 1 to your mana pool. <br />This would make it harder to put the ability on creatures, but you could have a vigilance creature that pumps itself, or a creature that gives itself a counter (A la chronomaton), or just an efficient creature that can untap itself later in the game. I feel like this might be a little better at 6, but I haven't played with it so maybe that's too good. You could also have a cycle like this:<br />Online Assistant 4<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn<br />W, T: creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn<br />Online Torturer 2<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.<br />U, T: Target player puts the top 3 cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.<br />Online Bleeder 3<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Target player loses 1 life.<br />B, T: Target layer loses 2 life.<br />Online Vanguard 3<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Target creature with power 3 or less can't block this turn.<br />R, T: Target creature can't block this turn.<br />Online Forcefield 6<br />Artifact<br />Access the Machine (<i>7: Untap each artifact you control.</i>)<br />T: Target creature gains hexproof until end of turn.<br />G, T: Creatures you control gain hexproof until end of turn.<br />Not great examples perhaps, but you can have minor tap abilities and better versions with a color requirement. So you need 8 mana to upgrade one of them from minor to major, 9 mana for two, etc. if you decide to access the machine that turn. That would help reduce repetitive gameplay, at least a bit. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16656980468514174272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-13384253135891607702015-05-20T18:38:01.872-04:002015-05-20T18:38:01.872-04:00Yeah, this was the original idea that inspired Acc...Yeah, this was the original idea that inspired Access the Machine and Industrial Revolution - it was Tommy Occhipinti's original Revolution mechanic.<br /><br />The problem I think everyone had was that you'd have some stuff 'Accessed' and some stuff not 'Accessed'. I like the idea of transforming back at end of turn to fix that, but...<br /><br />Personally, if we're going down the DFC path - which I think is a fine path - I'd much prefer if it simply transformed all cards with Revolution for the rest of the game. Totally feels like a 'Paradigm shift' when you do that, you know?Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-63151849783596519232015-05-20T17:50:45.763-04:002015-05-20T17:50:45.763-04:00I'm curious about tapping back into space I th...I'm curious about tapping back into space I think we were exploring under "revolt" or "industrial revolution". Naming either the front side or the back side with a supertype or subtype can help shortcut this, but this is just a test template.<br /><br />Magnetic Lackey 4<br />Artifact Creature - Construct (u)<br />Access the Machine 7 (<i>7:Transform each non-Powered artifact you control.</i>)<br />2/3<br />//<br />Magnetic Behemoth (-)<br />Artifact Creature - Powered Construct<br />At the beginning of your upkeep, transform ~.<br />6/7<br /><br />"Powered" here is a an artifact subtype that we see on the "night" side. They could all flip back at the beginning of your next turn - either as a ubiquitous trigger, or part of the Access ability - or maybe not.<br /><br />Research Probe 3<br />Artifact (r)<br />2, T: Name a card type, then reveal the top card of your library. If it’s not the named type, put it on the bottom of your library.<br />Access the Machine 7 (<i>7:Transform each non-Powered artifact you control.</i>)<br />//<br />Research Matrix (-)<br />Artifact - Powered<br />2, T: Name a card. Search your library for a card with that name and put it into your hand.<br />Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-69890315156062450012015-05-20T17:26:46.954-04:002015-05-20T17:26:46.954-04:00Likely. LMK if you think of something.Likely. LMK if you think of something.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-63358638901870825542015-05-20T16:36:20.297-04:002015-05-20T16:36:20.297-04:00Right, but my point is that the reminder text does...Right, but my point is that the reminder text doesn't make that clear. I get that it's "obvious", but still seems like there might be a better wording for this.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-14949244497988367532015-05-20T16:21:42.932-04:002015-05-20T16:21:42.932-04:00All italicized text is there for the player's ...All italicized text is there for the player's benefit and has no rules meaning. Flavor text, ability words, and reminder text have no effect on the game. Reminder text exists to remind players how a keyword is to be played. So long as it serves that purpose, there is no right or wrong reminder text. The full rules for all abilities are found in the comprehensive rules.<br /><br />Here, the natural intuition is that access the machine doesn't activate access the machine because that's immediately infinite / broken and makes no flavor sense. 'Other' here is just to remind players that's the case.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-4098516044290957402015-05-20T15:54:24.825-04:002015-05-20T15:54:24.825-04:00Jay, I got the intent behind that 'other',...Jay, I got the intent behind that 'other', but I think Steam Fu might be right. Usually the 'other' refers to the object in question - in this case, the ability on the stack itself, not the kind of ability it is.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-15509264701339770262015-05-20T15:47:34.015-04:002015-05-20T15:47:34.015-04:00I really like the shared activation model (in fact...I really like the shared activation model (in fact, it preempts a worse mechanic in the same space I was playing around with for the next Tesla post).<br /><br />The only other option I think is really on the table is making the activation explicitly call out that the effect is tied to the permanents:<br /><br />{7}: Access each permanent you control.<br />Access { ~ gets +2/+2 until end of turn. }<br /><br />or the like. Obviously this is a bigger departure from standard Magic templating.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-30140113811616879632015-05-20T15:37:41.094-04:002015-05-20T15:37:41.094-04:00That's what the word 'other' is doing ...That's what the word 'other' is doing in there. You activate abilities <i>other</i> than access the machine abilities.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.com