Every set needs an exciting dragon. At least, that's the logic behind Balefire Dragon and Moonveil Dragon. However true it is for a gothic horror set, there can be no question how important it is for a core set. The number one thing players will be disappointed not to see in the set that introduces them to Magic is an impressive dragon. There are 98 cards with subtype "dragon" and many more cards that interact with or even just reference them. Right now Magic 2013 is looking for its poster dragon. It could be a reprint, but it needs to be worthy of mythic rarity, appropriate to the setting-neutral environment, and feel refreshing. Bogardan Hellkite was a great inclusion in M10, but would be a bit repetitive to bring back again so soon.So we're opening up a discussion for you all to suggest reprints, new cards and new concepts for dragons that fit all these criterion. The dragon currently in this slot is Razing Hellkite.
It's a clear callback to Obsidian Fireheart and we love how that ability feels on a dragon, but we're concerned it might look too derivative coming so soon.So, if you think you can find a red dragon design that is exciting, mythic and appropriate for a core set, get hatching.
If you want to attract Timmy and Spike, I'd suggest big and undercosted, like they did with Phyrexian Obliterator:
ReplyDeleteAncient Dragon (Mythic Rare)
RRRR
Creature - Dragon
5/5
Flying
R: Ancient Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Who is the audience, I guess is my question. I like this one because it's a Dragon that will actually see play. Mono Red is just so much more feasible than Mono Black.
Discounting Shivan Dragon will entice Spike and won't make Timmy love it any less, but is undercosting existing cards how we want to express Mythic-ness?
DeleteI have to question whether this would make people happy OR see play. This guy can close out games, but he very succinctly dies to removal of any sort. Obliterator makes blocking and burn both dangerous ideas, in a color that sometimes may have more use for a midrange thug than Red.
DeleteBy reducing costs, you can make a card more potentially playable, or at least at a stronger hypothetical "power level", but some players also legitimately like to see big numbers, even in the top right. Making an identical card cheaper doesn't necessarily make it more fun?
It doesn't need to be an exact analog to Shivan. I almost gave it 1RR: +3/+0 eot, but I wanted the concept to be clean when first introducing it. And anyway, cards get outclassed all. the. time. Shivan Dragon is a nostalgic favorite, so it could be said that creating an homage to it would actually be welcome by players.
DeleteAs to "dying to removal" that's precisely why I think it's acceptable as a 5/5 for four. Not every creature can or should also present some form of card advantage. I know that's the fad and the thing competitive players are overly focused on these days (hence the Vapor Snag test) but its such an awful strain on design and honestly if that's all the game becomes I have less interest in playing or designing for it. I like vanilla creatures, or creatures with negative card advantage like Balduvian Horde. They create interesting play decisions and risk/reward is a huge part of what makes Magic exciting to play. My opinion.
I agree with everything you just said, Nich. I just don't see any of that as a reason to reprint Shivan Dragon with a lower cost and call it Mythic. The Mythic rarity shouldn't be as much about tournament playability (and if the proposed card isn't constructed-worthy, I don't want to play), but about feeling special or unique. Costing less just doesn't feel that special to most players.
DeleteWeyr of Dragons (M)
ReplyDelete2RRR
Creature - Dragon
Flying
When ~ ETB ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to the # of Dragons you control.
Whenever an opponent casts a spell, put a copy of ~ onto the Battlefield.
4/4
Really, this should either cost 4RRR or trigger on Creatures ETB under an opponents control or on creature spells cast, but I wanted to push it.
DeleteDoom Blade won't work but Wrath will.
Interesting. I could see this as a RUG Dragon in an expert set, but creature duplication doesn't feel mono-red or dragon-y to me.
DeleteThe damage effect ties in with the duplication effect, but I'm not sure how relevant it is. 1 or 2 damage isn't much; 3 or 4 is, but how important is a free char when your opponent has four dragons?
The flavor is less clone and more w/e your opponent threatens you, another member of the weyr comes to your aid.
DeleteYou're right in that it's more multicolored.
George Gone, it would be awesome if you could make some suggestion in our MSE files!
DeleteI think Weyr of Dragons should be a huge dragon that makes smaller dragon tokens without copying. I'm not sure what the trigger should be. For example:
Weyr of Dragons (M)
5RRR
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Whenever ~ or another dragon enters the battlefield, ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to the # of Dragons you control.
Whenever you or another player casts an instant or sorcery spell, put a Red 4/4 Dragon token onto the battlefield.
6/6
Another version:
DeleteDragon Blastmaster (M)
2RRR
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Whenever ~ or another dragon enters the battlefield under your control, for each Dragon you control, that Dragon deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
5/5
Despite the way the two abilities interact, I'd rather see a more unified concept with just one or the other ability. Dragon Blademaster works for me in that way.
DeleteDragon Roost is a good example of a Dragon making card and I think we could make a Dragon Sire card but I don't know why it would trigger off of spells being cast.
Maybe:
Dragon Sire 5RR
5/5 Dragon
Whenever another Dragon ETB, put a 1/1 red Dragon creature token with flying OTB and put a +1/+1 counter on each Dragon token you control.
Alternately:
T, Tap another Dragon creature you control: Make babies as above.
If we can grab Spike or Johnny incidentally, that's fine, but Timmy is the player we most owe a fun dragon.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of how good should a Mythic be, I'd argue a Mythic should be good enough to see play in at least one Standard competitive deck, but not so good that it's an auto-include in every deck that can play it (no card should be that strong, IMO). The same can almost be said of rares too, the biggest difference being that mythics should feel more special (by being unique or particularly good at whatever curious thing it is that they do).
As an aside, isn't Draco the ultimate lair dragon already?
ReplyDeleteDraco's domain abilities certainly are similar to lair/bond, but domain != bond and I don't think we want to confuse the issue.
DeleteI do wonder if we can't make a Dragon with bond.
DeleteTerritorial Dragon 3RR
Creature-Dragon (mythic)
Flying
Forest Bond - +1/+2
Swamp Bond - Intimidate
4/4
or
Territorial Dragon 3RR
Creature-Dragon (mythic)
Forest Bond - +1/+2
Plains Bond - First strike
Island Bond - Flying
Swamp Bond - Intimidate
4/4
Hmm, does that feel mythic or just rare?
I meant Tek, not Draco.
DeleteThe above feel rare. They're better than Kird Ape, but still evocative. Dragons should Wow the player, IMO.
Tek is another great find. It clearly has bond. If we were still in the model of using different abilities for a given land, I would snatch Tek up immediately. Since we've determined that we need to stick strictly to one ability per land type, Tek breaks 4/5 of those rules.
DeleteThat said, we could certainly consider designing a new callback to Tek. I wonder, would it have to be an artifact? What we really need here is a red dragon. Could a red dragon have all five bonds?
I haven't been following things enough to know exactly what you guys have been doing with Bond, but you could experiment with various pseudo-bond concepts, ideally with Red's allies. A simple and fun callback to Two-Headed Dragon (which seems to be a favorite) like this:
Delete"I wish I was a Hydra" Dragon
5R
Creature - Dragon Sometimes-Hydra (M)
Flying
~ enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each Forest you control.
1R: ~ gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on it.
~ can block an additional creature for each +1/+1 counter on it.
5/5
Dragonmaster Outcast
ReplyDeleteR
Creature - Human Shaman
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control six or more lands, put a 5/5 red Dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
1/1
Dragons AND lands! In terms of constructed, this is mostly a sideboard card, but I would consider this on the list.
I'd want a card in the set that makes dragon tokens, just because the tokens would excite new players. But the Outcast isn't that splashy for new players (Or old ones, lots of people complained about the "one-mana mythic" when it debuted).
DeleteI'd accomplish that by reprinting Death by Dragons in the uncommon dragon slot, but IDK. Another popular option for reprinting is Two-Headed Dragon, which is still one of my favorite top down designs (and saw constructed play!)
It's funny, I'd actually proposed both of these things previously in the dropbox (partially as we'd arrived at these conclusions in the skeletons) — the rest of the team seemed unimpressed by Two-Headed, and Jules and Jay doubted the reprintability of Death by Dragons in a non-multiplayer setting.
DeleteDragonmaster Outcast isn't exciting? People complained about a one-mana spell that makes dragons every turn for free? Missed that.
DeleteWe considered Death by Dragons but decided it reads way too strangely in a set that isn't specifically for multiplayer. Two-Headed Dragon is a reasonable option for rare, but it's definitely not mythic.
I don't know that people complained about Dragonmaster Outcast, but a 1/1, no matter how powerful its abilities, isn't as dramatically exciting as you might want. Beguiler of Wills received a similarly lukewarm reception.
DeleteI'm reading an implicit [among Spikes] in those statements. Timmy and Johnny are happy to live the dream.
DeleteNo, I think that statement is equally applicable to Timmy as it is to Spike. Being a 1/1 can be interpreted as an appealing challenge for Johnny, but Timmy is just as capable as seeing the truth of a card as Spike: this will not live long enough for me to use, so why bother?
DeletePrincess Hunter (M)
ReplyDelete2RR or 1RRR
Creature - Dragon
8/8
Flying, Haste, Trample
When ~ attacks, defending player may sacrifice a creature. If he does, remove ~ from combat.
Essentially, the Dragon accepts a sacrifice or tribute in lieu of attack. Sac a dude and the dragon is appeased.
Nice angle. We had tried making a (new) Dragon that was hunted by Knights, but all the implementations were clunky. This idea has potential because it hits a relevant trope that dragons haven't done already in Magic.
DeleteThat card is basically:
Delete2RR
Haste
8/8
Only better. The flavor is fine, but the ability is basically just forcing your opponent to chump block it every turn. Maybe:
Self Serving Tyrant 5RR
Creature- Dragon
Flying, Haste
When ~ attacks, defending player may sacrifice three permanents. If they do, remove ~ from combat.
6/6
That's costed a little more reasonably, and should still hit the flavor mark you're looking for.
I came up with that in five seconds at work. I just wanted to get the trope out there.
DeleteAllowing the sacrifice of any permanent feels too much like annihilator to me. I'd rather just artifacts and creatures, if only for flavor.
Something in between?
DeleteGluttonous Tyrant 3RR
Creature- Dragon
Flying
When ~ attacks, defending player may sacrifice a creature. If he or she does, remove ~ from combat.
6/6
I think this still wants haste. It might also feel less chumpable if it untapped upon sacrifice, which I guess could make sense as it taking its prize back to the roost.
DeleteWe could also get more complicated by exiling the creatures and returning them when the dragon dies to better fit the kidnapped princess trope.
Everything *wants* haste. Why does this particular card need haste? To guarantee you get to attack with it once? How many of the Eldrazi had haste?
DeleteFlavorwise I don't think a Dragon normally shows up, the people all prepare their defenses, and then it kidnaps the princess. It's supposed to be a surprise! If we go with the flavor you're proposing I'm fine with a haste-less version.
DeleteA variant under consideration:
DeleteGluttonous Tyrant 4RR
7/7 Flying Dragon
Sacrifice a creature: Tap Gluttonous Tyrant and put a +1/+1 counter on it. Only opponents may play this ability.
Getting back to the princess flavor (but stretching the pie):
DeletePrincess Snatcher 4RR
5/4 Flying Dragon
Whenever Princess Snatcher attacks, exile target creature defending player controls.
When Princess Snatcher dies, return each card exile by it to the battlefield under its owner’s control.
Eternal Flame Hellkite 4RR
ReplyDeleteCreature- Dragon (M)
Flying
Eternal Flame Hellkite has protection from everything except creatures equipped with Dragonslayer.
5/4
----
Dragonslayer 3
Artifact- Equipment (R)
Equipped creature gains +3/+0 and has protection from red, vigilance and reach.
Equip 3
If you already have a good fit for the "rare equipment" slot, just substitute that equipment for this one.
Huh. Jules had proposed a Protection from Everything But Knights creature. Interesting coincidence. That ability wasn't fun because there aren't that many Knights and none of them fly. This interacts with even fewer cards. I'd rather just make a regular dragon and a dragonslayer artifact with anti-dragon abilities like this one.
DeleteFair. Another way to word it would be "Eternal Flame Hellkite can only be destroyed by creatures equipped with Dragonslayer." Possibly also add trample. That would give it "just" indestructibility, but really I'm just trying to make an indestructable dragon with a flavor exemption. The Bellerophon myth.
Delete"Protection from everything" probably does make it too noninteractive, if only because it removes the ability to chump block. Indestructibility would still leave that possibility up, along with options like o-ring etc.
Dragon of Coldrock 4RR
ReplyDeleteCreature- Dragon
Flying
Dragon of Coldrock gets +1/+0 for each tapped mountain you control.
R: Dragon of Coldrock gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
5/5
This actually wants to be a 4/5 or a 3/6 so that it isn't "just better" than Shivan.
DeleteVERY powerful card. Tapping a Mountain for its Firebreathing ability gives it +2/+0.
DeleteWe are considering Dragon of Coldrock.
DeleteAlso, this:
Dragon of Hotrock 4RR
5/5 Flying Dragon
1R: Dragon of Hotrock gets +1/+0 until end of turn and deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
I've never been able to play with Dragon Broodmother with it was standard legal. So I would love that chance, however its not mono-red :(
ReplyDeleteMy favorite dragon of all time, Two-headed dragon. It was good enough to see some play when it was T2. But, I see a great benefit of Two-headed being in a core set. For newer players it adds an additional combat element that isn't difficult to understand, easy to use and most importantly IMO, its exciting to use.
So if I had a vote that counted, Two-Headed Dragon would be a really fun addition.
Two-headed would be mythic by today standards IMO.
You say that Timmy wants a mythic dragon... What about a rare+ dragon cycle? Something to replace the Titans... But in dragon form? A different dragon for each color? If quantity doesn't trump quality for Timmy, these could be pushed to mythic, but I'm trying not jump too far beyond the bounds of the discussion.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to make Dragons in all colors, particularly since green isn't supposed to get flying. They did it in Kamigawa block and it's awesome a concept not to do again, but probably not in a core set since we really want to focus on the normal expression of each color rather than make [awesome] exceptions.
DeleteYou know, this is a REALLY simple ability, but I've looked for a creature that has {R}: +2/+0 EOT, but haven't found any. Though, we've had firebreathing double strikers, so maybe the ground's been covered.
ReplyDeleteIt intrigues me despite that.
Do like.
DeleteThat's why I'd like to see not +2/+0, but +3/+0. Firebreathing to the max.
DeleteThe problem, as I noticed on my pseudo +2/+0 above, is that this ability encourages players to go all in on the dragon. And its really risky on expensive cards because its so easy at that point to just swing for 19+ damage next turn. Maybe:
DeleteInfernomouth Elder 4RR
Creature-Dragon
Flying
R: +2/+0 until eot.
/Flames so hot it Burns their teeth to ash./
0/7
I like +3/+0, but it's NOT STUPID ENOUGH. MORE!
DeleteRunaway Reaction Dragon
4RR
Flying
R: Double ~'s power until end of turn.
1/4
There really ought to be a Dragon with Act of Treason either as ETB or activated ability. There should definitely be a Dragon with Fling as an activated ability. But these things are obvious; how about something interesting:
ReplyDeleteGuardian of the Peaks 2RR
Creature - Dragon
Flying, Hexproof
{R}: +1/+0
Whenever you are attacked, if you control two or more mountains, flip a coin. If you win, ~ does damage to that creature equal to it's power.
Whenever ~ deals damage, it loses Hexproof until end of turn.
2/3
Is this a "Mythic Dragon"? Well, it's the Dragon version of the Heroes and they were Mythic so...
This guy has a lot going on. What does it all represent?
DeleteDiamond-scale Dragon
ReplyDelete3RRR
4/7
trample
fire-breathing
cannot be blocked by creatures with power 3 or greater.
Scales so heavy it cannot fly, scales so strong you have to get under them to harm it.
It's a neat thought, but let's face it: Dragons are already airborne only through Magic. Heavier scales shouldn't make a real difference. Take away the flying and it's more Wurm or Hellion.
DeleteI disagree as to the flying only through magic part about dragons, but I concur that taking away flying makes for a strange dragon. This was more of a top down design after the dragon from the Hobbit...
DeleteThe Serra Avenger of Dragons
ReplyDeleteRRR
5/5
You can't cast ~ unless an opponent has been dealt 5 or more damage this turn.
Flash
Flying
///
It's like Furyborn Hellkite, but more Spike while still interesting in multiplayer.
Or it's like War Elemental but good(ish).
///
You could also probably just print a monocolor Dragon Broodmother without the whole Devour thing and the "every upkeep" clause:
Brooding Dragonmother
4RR
4/4
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a 2/2 red Dragon creature token with haste onto the battlefield.
Doesn't quite capture the mythic-aura, but I can see a variation working out.
Dragon Avenger is pretty sweet. Not sure the flash is worth it, since most damage will be dealt to your opponent on your turn.
DeleteFlash is just there to provide a degree of versatility, as the trigger is just based on an opponent being dealt damage, not you specifically dealing that damage. Thus, you could hypothetically cast Dragon Avenger after two opponents have had some minor skirmish.
DeleteFlash is also one of those abilities that I think can really draw in Spikes to consider a design they wouldn't otherwise.
Seems a little too much like Furyborn Hellkite, especially coming the set after bloodthirsty.
DeleteBloodscent Wyrm 2RRR
Delete4/4 Flying Dragon
Whenever Bloodscent Wyrm deals combat damage, it deals damage to defending player equal to the amount of damage already dealt to him or her this turn.
Dragon of the elements
ReplyDelete2RRR
Flying
plains bound-when ~comes into play gain 1 life for each creature you control
swamp bound~ when ~comes into play target player loses life = to the number of creatures they control and you gain that amount
island bound~ when ~comes into play return target creature to its owners hand
forest bound~ when ~comes into play add GG to your mana pool this mana can only be used to cast green spells
tales of this dragon where told for thousands of years but none ever though that they were true.
4/4
note- i looked back at a few older posts in the M13 section and i saw ~bound (sorry if the name changed since) if this is no longer the plan then this card will prob not happen.
I would like to see a dragon that would see play but still be heavy enough in the red to keep it from being splashed into any color easily while still fitting the set and the ~bound that will be added to this set.(again sorry if this has been dropped since earlier posts)
I think this design could be intersting, but it has some clear flaws:
Delete- the cost: 2RRR means that the ideal scenery in which you gain (wow) all its abilities, you must have at the very minimum seven lands; i think the cost can't be so red-intensive, otherwise it clearly conflicts with bond; 4R would be ok.
- plains bond and swamp bond are very confusing: one cares for YOUR creatures, the other for opponent's creatures; i would go with caring always for my creatures; besides, the power level is too fluctuating, swamp bond is STRICTLY better than plains bond, it is probably better even if you cut the life gain from swamp bond;
- i could go with island bond, but forest bond feels very clunky to me, and I'm also concerned about potential broken-ness of it; in general I think the abilities should feel more cohesive with the card, and the element rapresented by each bond.
That said, I think the idea of a full-bond Mythic Dragon is very interesting, if executed properly.
(edited with pizza feed back)
ReplyDeleteDragon of the elements
4R
flying
swamp bound~ when ~comes into play target player loses 1 life for each (swamp) used to cast this spell
forest bound~ creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn
plains bound-when ~comes into play gain 1 life for each (plains) used to cast this spell
island bound~ when ~comes into play return target creature to its owners hand
element bound (this is if all 5 basic lands were used)~ if ~(WBUGR) was used to cast this spell gain 2 life, target player loses 2 life, return 2 creatures to owners hand, creatures you control gain +2/+2
tales of this dragon where told for thousands of years but none ever though that they were true.
4/4
This should fix some of the broken bound that were part of the first draft and make them more balanced and prevent a drop and win even if enemy players are at 20 life still. I also decided to make the bound scale with 2 of them with each land that was used for black and wight. Since it is an elemental dragon i thought that elemental bound could be added to it while making it good but hard to use and not a game winner if you do cast it like that.
actually, I now think that even a simple "four bonds" creatures is impossible to do, simply because of a text lenght issue. bond is an ability word, so you have to rewrite "as long as you control etc." every time, and it clearly doesn't fit.
Deleteoh the +2/+2 is until end of turn cant edit post so have to reply
ReplyDeleteThree-headed Lightning Dragon 6RR
ReplyDelete6/6
Flying
When Three-headed Lightning Dragon enters the battlefield, put three red 3/1 Elemental tokens with haste and "this must be blocked if able" onto the battlefield. Sacrifice those tokens at the beginning of the end step.
A simpler version:
DeleteThree-headed Lightning Dragon 6RR
6/6
Flying
When Three-headed Lightning Dragon enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to each of three target creatures and/or players.
Lightning Breath Dragon 4RR
Delete4/5
Flying
XR, T: Put a red X/1 Elemental token with haste onto the battlefield. It must be blocked this turn if able. Sacrifice the token at the beginning of the end step.
Piercing Breath Dragon 6RR
Delete6/6
Flying
When Piercing Breath Dragon enters the battlefield, you may have it deal X damage to target creature and X damage to that creature's controller, where X is the number of Mountains you control.
I like it, but maybe it is too strong. if you play in monored, it reads: put a 6/6 flying, deal 8 damage to target creature AND 8 damage to target opponent. for comparison, Bogardan Hellkite costs the same, and is a 5/5 that deals only 5 damage divided as you want, and has only flash as a plus.
DeleteThe second 3HLD is definitely better than the first, but is probably too similar to Inferno Titan.
DeleteLBD suffers from the problem of telling players to tap something they'd rather swing with. We could swap the tap for an attack trigger though.
PBD is nice but maybe does feel too much like Bogardan Hellkite. Is it okay that it deals no damage to your opponent if he has no creatures?
I like the must-be-blocked ability in place of trample for the elemental tokens because it feels refreshing; more menacing to your opponent's creatures than to their life total.
Volcano Spitter 4RR
6/4 Flying Dragon
Whenever ~ attacks, you may sacrifice a Mountain. If you do, put an X/1 red Elemental creature token OTB tapped and attacking. It must be blocked this turn if able. X is the number of Mountains you control.
R: Target Mountain becomes a 3/1 red Elemental creature that must be blocked if able until EOT. It is still a land.
DeleteWith Lightning Breath Dragon, I meant to give the X/1 tokens trample as well.
DeleteThis is a case where the flavor is lost if the Dragon attacks side by side with the X/1 token it just spit out. It won't feel like the token is a projectile shot from the Dragon's mouth.
If the X/1 token has trample, it's like Fireballing the opponent for X every turn (while taking down a creature) and it will be a very satisfying thing to do, even without having the Dragon attack.
I don't think the Piercing Breath Dragon is too strong compared to Bogardan Hellkite. Bogardan Hellkite can always deal its damage even in a 2-color deck or when it's cheated out with Dragonstorm, Warp World, or a reanimator spell. They go in different decks, so that's fine.
DeleteMaybe it could be a 3RR 4/4, and the the amount of damage could be an extra X that you pay.
That said, I could see changing the Piercing Breath Dragon's size and cost to not resemble Bogardan Hellkite too much.
It is a problem that it can't damage creatureless opponents; maybe the wording needs to change.
The second 3HLD is not too similar to Inferno Titan - it doesn't trigger when attacking, and it doesn't distribute the damage. It deals 3 to each.
If we do a bond Dragon, it will only use the existing bond abilities. Some selection of plains = first strike, island = flying, swamp = intimidate, mountain = +2/+0 and forest = +1/+2.
ReplyDeleteMost likely, we use all of them or just the ally colors.
Worldly Dragon 4RR
5/4 Dragon
Bond — As long as you control a Forest, ~ gets +1/+2. As long as you control a Plains, ~ has first strike. As long as you control an Island, ~ has flying. As long as you control a Swamp, ~ has intimidate.
It's pretty weird this dragon can only fly if you have an island and it's a little disappointing how marginal the plains and forest abilities are.
Scourge of the Cedar Marsh 5R
5/5 Flying Dragon
Forest Bond — As long as you control a Forest, ~ gets +1/+2.
Swamp Bond — As long as you control a Swamp, ~ has intimidate.
That's quite playable, but these abilities don't feel very dragony. I think we're better off leaving bond out of the equation for our dragon.
Hellkite of the Pyre 4RRR
ReplyDelete4/4
Flying
If a source would deal damage to a creature or player, it deals double that damage to that creature or player instead.
R: Hellkite of the Pyre gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Here's an idea for a dragon that is bonded to artifacts rather than land. But since red hates artifacts it's bonded in to artifacts that it destroys.
ReplyDeleteRelic-bonded Dragon 4RR
Creature - Mythic
Flying, haste
When ~ comes into play, put 1 burn counter on it.
R: ~ gets +1/+0 until EOT for each burn counter on ~.
T, sacrifice a burn counter: destroy target artifact. If you do, put X burn counters on ~ where X is the converted mana cost of that artifact.
5/5
Horde-smelter Dragon does a very similar thing, but it makes more sense because it's in a dedicated artifact set. This Guy wouldn't have much impact in the typical core set.
DeleteTeppermentle Dragon 4R
ReplyDelete3/2 Dragon
Flying, Haste
When Teppermentle Dragon ETB you may Exile any number of creatures you control. For each creature exiled this way Bonding Dragon gets +2/+0 and Gains trample. Return all exiled creatures at end of turn
Exile Bonding Dragon at end of turn.
Cards with ETB/LTB abilities could have great synergy with such a card as this. Splash in white/black weeny, aggressive Red decks use it as a finisher.
Just a thought.
*Temperamental*
DeletePandemic Dragon (M)
ReplyDelete5RR
Creature - Dragon
5/5
Flying
Creatures you control are 5/5 Red Dragons with Flying.
Probably not mono red. Probably not core set. Probably over costed. Could also read Mountains you control are 5/5 red dragons with flying. They are still lands.
Ash-Breath Hellkite (M)
3RRR
Creature - Dragon
6/6
Flying
Whenever ~ attacks, mountains you control gain "T: this deals 1 Dmg to target creature" until eot.
Apocalyptic Dragon (M)
7RR
Creature - Dragon
6/6
Flying, trample
When ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, exile all permanents from the battlefield, all cards in all graveyards and all cards in all hands.
Territorial Dragon 4RR
ReplyDeleteCreature Dragon
Flying
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player sacrifices a land. If that land wasn't a Mountain, Territorial Dragon deals 3 damage to that player.
6/6
Seems printable. Question is, what's the flavor? He's eating the world, but only the parts we let him, but he gets annoyed if we don't feed him Mountains?
DeleteIts along the same lines as Gluttonous tyrant above, only it demands tribute in the form of lands. And he prefers mountains.
DeleteLavagorger Dragon
ReplyDelete3RR
4/4
flying
firebreathing
3RR, sacrifice two mountain, put a lava counter on ~
When Lavagorger Dragon dies it deals damage equal to its power times the number of lava counters on it divided as you choose among any number of creatures and/or players.
Seems overly complex.
DeleteWhy not just
"When Lavagorger Dragon dies it deals damage equal to the number of Mountains you control to target creature or player"
or
"3RR, Sacrifice a Mountain: Lavagorger Dragon deals its power in damage to target creature or player" ?
You are indeed correct. My problem was trying once more with a top down concept of what a lavagorger dragon would be... but your versions read far more cleanly.
DeleteUroboros Dragon 3RR
ReplyDeletehttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
Flying
1R, Sacrifice Uroboros Dragon: Return Uroboros Dragon from your graveyard to the battlefield.
5/5
It's a vorthos fueled red Morphling, with interesting Johnny implications. Pandemonium
Agreed. Only problem is it's not red, it's black (or green). If you don't buy that, then it's more Phoenix than Dragon.
DeleteI'm not sure what Jay is agreeing with, but as Ouroboros is conceptually an embodiment of the life-cycle, it would probably be more appropriate as a B/G design.
DeleteAnd mechanically this seems like a sideways attempt at putting blinking in red.
But maybe you guys should just fuse all major red fatty types into one thing.
Creature - Dragon Phoenix Hydra Hellion
I don't see the hate. First, red has multiple cards that interact with the graveyard in very similar ways. Pheonix, Squee, Hammer of Bogarden, and Zodiac Dragon establish reanimation as an occasional, flavorful inclusion in Red. The fact that those abilities are more commonly found in B or G doesn't change the fact that this is mythological Dragon trope.
DeletePlus, it's not just reanimation, but the Dragon eating itself over and over again. That's what the myth is about. It's not about a pheonix, unless I missed that scene in Harry Potter where Fawkes decides its got a hankering for BBQ.
As for shoehorning blink effects into red: that's just a fun side effect and not the justification. Norin the Wary does the same, but again its flavorful.
Not sure the ouroboros is a dragon the way Magic has dragons — probably a wurm. This, as a Dragon-who-is-like-ouroboros (not The Ouroboros), could hypothetically make sense, but it's not really a "dragon trope".
Deletehttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ouroboros_1.jpg
DeleteLooks Dragony to me. At least they do when they aren't just a stylized circle.
http://magiccards.info/query?q=eternal+dragon&v=card&s=cname
The promo art for eternal dragon also used this concept, even if it's unclear how that's supposed to fetch plains.
A Phoenix is red because it is reborn of fire.
DeleteHammer of Bogardan isn't a creature—red does have the ability to recur instants and sorceries in its pie.
Squee is a goblin so he's red. That he can't be killed is a plot element, justified in red by his legendary status alone.
Zodiac Dragon was printed in Portal, a set that was never tournament legal, making it more valid than, say, Assquatch.
You really can't use singular incidents like these for precedent. If you did, green would have access to flying thanks to Jugan, The Rising Star. Obviously exceptions can be made for flavor, but in this case the exception would be for making a black and/or green Dragon. Apart from the fact that we're giving this type 'dragon' (and even that choice is arguable—though I support it) I have no idea why you'd even suggest Oroborous be red.
I mean, it's not like those are the only two red creatures that bring themselves back. I could also point out that mono-red gets Undying, Unearth and Persist. I'm not saying this is a common ability, but it is an ability that red gets in the tertiary position.
DeleteIt's also a form of regeneration that "feels" more like Red's trickery than black's necromancy or green's healing. After all, it's a sacrifice ability that brings the creature back! New players ask: Why would I want to kill my creature just to get it back? That's crazy.
Black could get Reassembling Dragon or Green could get Regenerating (Nonflying) Dragon, but, flavor-wise, I just see "eats itself over and over" dragon as being a wacky red card. Where else would you put "Sacrifice ~: Return ~ to the battlefield."? It just feels like Grinning Ignus to me.
Orcish Lumberjack Dragon 4RR
ReplyDelete4/4
R: +1/+0 until end of turn.
Sacrifice a mountain: Add RRR to your mana pool.
Probably rare, not mythic. Lighter, to help really hammer the idea home?
Mythic Whelp 2RR
2/2
Flying
R: +1/+0 until end of turn.
Sacrifice a mountain: Add RRR to your mana pool.
I would worry about creating the Whelp because of the ability to ramp from 4 to 12 in a single turn. Sure, you're going all in, but the card seems very Krak Clan Ironworks in terms of combo potential.
DeleteThe big one is safer (Although still, turn 6 Emerakul?), but I'm not sure of the "Top downness" of the design. Maybe the flavor is Volanic Eruption dragon?
You're right, Eruption would be much more fitting.
DeleteAs for the big one, I don't know that a six-drop that requires you to sacrifice all (or almost all) of your lands in order to cast Emrakul (assuming you have it in your hand) is *that* broken [at mythic, these days], but it'd definitely be something to watch. Maybe:
Eruption Hellkite 4RR
Flying 4/4
R: +1/+0 until end of turn.
Sacrifice a mountain: Add RRR to your mana pool. Activate this only as a sorcery.
If you're going all-in on his ability, the timing restriction doesn't hurt that much, and it allows a much better window for response if you're trying to break the game with it. I guess it's similar in some ways to Moltensteel Dragon, but very different; potential game-winner on its own but encourages a certain sort of deck around it. (Certainly plays interestingly with Wolf-Run.)
Do we want people to play this Dragon just so they can sacrifice their six mountains to Fireball their opponent for 17?
DeleteYou say that like it's a bad thing. If you're playing this, six mountains, and a fireball, and get them all together in play without dying to Doom Blade/Negate/Reject... is there a problem?
DeleteI do think this is quite strong, and potentially too strong, but it's also straightforward and exciting.
Big Friendly Dragon
ReplyDelete5RR
Creature - Dragon
5/5
Flying, haste
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may search your library for a Dragon permanent card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
Heh. "Friendly"
DeleteDoes this need haste?
He's crashing the party and bringing all his bros, of course he needs haste.
DeleteOr trample.
I want to see the art for this card. Pretty sure he's humping a castle spire.
DeleteFire Mentor 4RR
ReplyDelete5/4 Flying Dragon
Red sorceries and instants cost you up to 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a red sorcery or instant, ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
This one is nice, although I have a feeling that the mythic red dragons need to be more:
Deletea) top down design (since they are iconic creatures that need to appeal and make sense to new players)
and
b) need to be a "one card win" that needs to be dealt every turn or end the game. (firebreathing, killing all creatures on the other side when attacking, pumping all your team when attacking, destroying artifacts and gaining power in a set where artifacts matter, etc etc)
This one does not feel top down, and also needs a lot of other cards to be interesting: it functuanly says: keep your 3 to 5 mana spells in hand, while the opponent is attacking you, in order to drop this at 6 mana, and then cast them a tiny bit cheaper and for a tiny bit more damage. At 6cc you need more bang for your mana.
Might feel too similar to Charmbreaker Devils. It's also a little awkward because the cost reduction doesn't mean much when you've hit 6.
DeleteMaybe:
Mentor of Fire 4RR
Creature-Dragon
Flying
Whenever you would draw a card, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal two instant or sorcery cards. Put those cards into your hand and put all other cards revealed this way into your graveyard.
5/4
Getting closer.
DeleteMaybe:
Whenever ~ attacks, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a red sorcery or instant card. Cast it for free.
or
Whenever you cast a red sorcery or instant spell, copy it.
I wonder whether or not we actually want to make a instant-and-sorcery-related Dragon here? Opposite Koth, maybe, but I feel like Chandra may have the "red i/s-friendly mythic" niche covered? Similar to why we aren't making a mill-heavy Sphinx next to JMA?
DeleteSpeaking of Walkers
DeleteSarhkan, the Dragon Worshipper 4RR
Planeswalker- Sarkhan
+1: Put a 4/4 flying red dragon token onto the battlefield.
-2: Target creature gets +X/+0 until eot, where X equals twice the number of Mountains you control.
-6: You gain an emblem with "Players can't cast non-Dragon spells."
[4]
That is a beautiful ultimate.
DeleteTwo flavorful names, and some ways they could be implemented.
ReplyDelete_________________
Earthscorcher Dragon
Flying, 5/5, 4RR
and one of the following:
i)when ~ attacks it gets +X/+0 where X is the number of tapped lands your opponents control.
ii)whenever an opponent's land becomes tapped ~deals 1 damage to that land's controller
iii)when ~ attacks you may put a burn counbter or target land defending player controls (burn counters reminder text)
_________________
Slumbering Dragon/ Hoarding dragon
a dragon that sleeps on its loot, only waking up when some is stolen.
1RRR (low cost heavy red)
6/6 flying
~comes into play tapped, with N hoard counters on it. ~does not untap during at the beginning of your upkeep if it has hoard counters on it. (N to be determined during playtest, probably between 1 and 3)
then you play with the hoard counters. Ideas concerning that:
i) an opponent may remove one to add 1 colorless to her mana pool.
ii) whenever an opposing champion deals damage to you, remove a hoarding counter from ~
iii) when ~ attacks put a hoarding counter on it.
I was thinking: why not make it very simple, but powerful, like "Baneslayer Angel"?
ReplyDeleteBaneslayer Dragon 3RRR or 4RR
6/6 flying, firebreathing, haste, trample, protection from Knights (or Angels :D)(this last one is mainly because of the awesome flavor, but we could go with enemy color protection)
It's tempting. The thing about Baneslayer is it's not just very powerful, it also has decent flavor. Angel's fighting scourges like demons and dragons. If we can do something similarly flavorful for our "very strong" dragon, I'm all for it.
DeleteProtection from Knights is arguably the last ability a dragon should have (as evidenced by the "protection from everything but knights" suggestion). Dragons in stories tend to be very hard to kill except by a certain hero or weapon (also seen in Duncan's Dragon Slayer) but giving conditional indestructibility or protection from everything but x tends to make the card completely immune since there's no reason for the dragon's controller to attack into or block such a thing (and he often doesn't even have the choice since dragons fly and knights don't).
Maybe full-on indestructibility is something to consider. White can answer with exile effects and blue can answer with bounce and countermagic. We could even make a dragonslayer knight or equipment with "sacrifice ~: Exile target dragon".
Diamond-Scale Dragon 4RR
Creature-Dragon
Flying
~ is indestructible.
5/5
It's simple, but beautiful. And Shadow's name fits perfectly.
yeah me too have a spot for that simplicity. love it
Delete