We're intending to give Tesla a theme of progress, and that focus is tied up with the trappings of Steam Punk and artifacts. Thus far we've come up with a multitude of ways to convey progress, and a number more to interact with artifacts, but we haven't addressed their main overlap.How can we weave in the concept of technological advance?
The thing that separates technology from other realms of artifice is that technology improves. If you have a smart phone, you expect that in two years there will be a better one.
Maybe bringing this into Magic is as easy as sticking some of our existing progress mechanics onto artifacts, or maybe we need something external to convey adding new and improved versions of artifacts to the mix. We've seen one or two mechanics playing in this space over the course of Tesla design, but it's fairly virgin territory. So rather than color your designs with examples, I'm just going to ask you to take a crack at it.
The goal is to find some mechanical space that can both be flavored as technological advance and feels like it. I'm excited to see what we come up with!
Neurosynth Sparkshooter
ReplyDeleteCreature - Human Wizard
1RR
T: CARDNAME deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Modern age - T: CARDNAME deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Activate this ability only if you have cast an artifact costing {6} or more this game.
1/1
The idea of this is great - reminds me of the game 'Innovation' if you've played it - but the execution has a lot of memory issues. I think just checking to see if you control an artifact that costs 6 or more would be equivalent in most cases.
DeleteIf we make artifacts in this set of 6 or greater have a particular/consistent flavor, this is plausible. It's not without memory issues, but by and large, you don't forget if you've cast an Eldrazi.
DeleteWhy not trigger off controlling such an artifact?
DeleteWe could use "the highest CMC among artifacts you control" as a variable, but I think it's a lot cleaner to just have a threshold.
DeleteThis is a one-time switch that would presumably be relevant on a large number of cards, so you would *know* if you were entering the modern age or not. If there were a memory burden (and I doubt there would be) it could be resolved with a token, much like the poison counter tokens.
DeleteIt happens on cast for a couple reasons: 1) so you can't counter or undo going into the modern age (you can only travel forward in time, not back!) and 2) you can't reanimate or steal your way into the modern age.
I see where you're coming from with the no going back thing, but going the other way leads to much more interactive gameplay and isn't hard to justify as having access to some advanced technological power source or the like.
DeleteHow about a variant of Evolve?
ReplyDeleteBinding Orb (2)
Artifact
Upgrade (Whenever an artifact with a higher converted mana cost enters the battlefield under your control, put a charge counter on this artifact.)
T: Tap target creature with power less than the number of charge counters on CARDNAME.
But I keep thinking of "tech trees" from civilisation or city building type games.
Brilliant Scientist [2U]
Creature — Human Artificer
Eureka — As long as you control another creature, artifact, and enchantment, you draw an additional card at the beginning of each of your draw steps.
[2/3]
The idea here is from something like 7 Wonders where you're trying to collect a "set" of different icons. Magic doesn't really have different icons, and so this might be interesting. Particularly with artifact creatures.
The other type is a sort of 'tech tree' where you put tokens on something until you get access to better tech.
Weapons Engineering (1)
Artifact
Research (If you would gain any amount of life, you may put that many research counters on this artifact instead.)
As long as there are 5 or more research counters on CARDNAME, creatures you control get +3/+0.
I thought of card drawing as a trigger, but I like the idea of life gain as it makes life gain have a potentially interesting dynamic and makes it a bit of a higher pick. Same with lifelink. That said, blue and red wouldn't play with this, which is annoying. Card draw is probably a better bet.
Upgrade - Sure. Not exactly exciting, but it works.
DeleteEureka - This is really interesting, but it would necessitate changing the set from 'artifact-focus' to 'noncreature-focus'. Still, I really like the idea, you're definitely onto something.
Research - I agree that life-gain as the trigger is a mistake. Card draw feels like it'd be interesting to 'give up' to research, but also like it'd be very difficult to balance. Other possible resources:
Creatures/Attacks ("At the beginning of your upkeep, you may tap a creature you control. If you do, put a research counter n this artifact instead.")
Counters ("Whenever you would put a counter on a permanent, you may put a research counter on this instead.")
Damage ("Whenever a creature you control would deal combat damage to an opponent, you may put a research counter on this instead." <- Maybe needs different flavor?)
I think Research has a lot of exploratory potential - the idea of transmuting another resource into research is fascinating. We just have to make sure it's a resource that every color has a good amount of access to.
Well... either that, or just have Research associated with a subset of the colours. Not every keyword ability needs to be in every colour.
DeleteI like upgrade, but would suggest all the cards should do _something_ before you upgrade them.
DeleteI'm not big on eureka. Would rather use domain.
Worth noting that if we ever need a black-white mechanic, triggering off of life-gain is an option. I like research triggering off of cards drawn, since that directly correlates with knowledge gained, and is both automatic and easily accelerated (thanks to looting effects).
What if there were a ton of ways to put +1/+1 counters on creatures and artifacts (in the form of bionic enhancement) and a bunch of these:
DeleteDragonskin Statuette {3}
Artifact
As a sorcery — {1}{T}: Put a +1/+1 counter on target artifact or creature.
Golemesque (As long as ~ has three or more +1/+1 counters on it, it's a 0/0 creature in addition to its other types.)
Agreed with Jay on the upgrade front, which unfortunately robs us of a lot of clean designs and thus shrinks the space. The things we do for gameplay!
DeleteAs for other ideas here, Eureka is a really interesting threshold mechanic. I'm not sure if Tesla's the place for it or whether it's present for is too hard to turn one, but I'd love to hear opinions. Other things to think about in similar space are scaling effect with the number of permanent types or just making Eureka want 4 types of permanents to work with Planeswalkers in constructed.
Research is certainly interesting space, though I agree I'd rather try some other trade-ins before life gain.
As for Golemesque, I like the idea of your things becoming creatures, but it seems like all the cards are going to need to put +1/+1 counters on themselves to work. Maybe we can just use them instead of charge counters, but there's some risk it will confuse players to track things with +1/+1 counters on non-creatures.
My justification for golemesque is that the presence of the mechanic should make it clear to people that you can put +1/+1 counters on non-creatures and that doing so doesn't give them a power and toughness by itself. Just hypothesis.
DeleteCertainly worth trying if we can get access to some LSPs to try it with.
DeleteSome random ideas:
ReplyDeleteInspired by your smart phone thoughts...
Comptometer {4}
Artifact (U)
Upgrade (You may cast this card by exiling an artifact you control and paying the difference in mana costs between this and the exiled artifact. This gains all activated abilities of that artifact.)
{3}: Untap Comptometer.
"There is value in doing something for the first time. There is profit in doing it every time."
I had the idea of representing the flavor of 'upgrading' by having artifacts eat other artifacts and gain their abilities. I tied it to cost-reducing because that's simple but interesting.
Regarding the card, I thought it'd be interesting to make an Upgrade artifact which only has the purpose of upgrading or being upgraded. It's probably not the smartest design, but it certainly is good at showing off what makes Upgrade interesting.
-
Interesting Doohickey {3}
Artifact (C)
Prototype (Whenever a Rigger enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it assemble this into a Contraption artifact. A Rigger can assemble only one Contraption when it enters the battlefield.)
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
As long as Interesting Doohickey is a Contraption, it has "{T}: Add {3} to your mana pool."
The most powerful words an inventor can say are "I wonder why it does that?"
I had the idea of someone else 'upgrading' the artifact, and got this idea. I actually didn't start with the Rigger / Contraption idea, by the way! I just had the idea that, when something entered the battlefield, the artifact would 'switch' from toy to innovation. I realized I didn't want one thing to trigger every one of these Prototypes, so I put it at a one-to-one limit. The natural solution was to have the triggering object do an action that could only be done one at a time. Wait - triggering object? Action that the object takes, not the player? Sounds like Riggers and Contraptions! Just a great big happy coincidence.
I'm not too impressed by 'on/off' nature of the mechanic - I feel like the theme 'progress' needs to be a continual process, not a 'start to finish' mechanic - but I think this is the start of something nice.
-
Warforged Adapter {3}
Artifact Creature - Construct (C)
Advance (Whenever you cast a spell that costs more than the number of advance counters on Velocycler, put an advance counter on it.)
Warforged Adapter gets +1/+0 for each advance counter on it.
0/3
I got the inspiration for this one from Evan's "modern age" idea, which made me think of advancing from one epoch to the next. How to 'trigger' that? By 'inventing' a more advanced artifact. However, as you improve the Advance artifacts, you also make it harder to find possible improvements to them.
This one is kinda fiddly, uses non-+1/+1 counters, AND mentions CMC at common. So, that's a whole lot of 'yuck'! But I think it has potential for exploration, and perhaps the idea behind it can be captured more simply.
Perhaps this concept is better captured by the recommendation I had last post, Supercharge ("Whenever you cast a spell that costs more than ~"). Reflavoring that as Progress wouldn't be too difficult.
I like a lot of the theme and possibility of upgrade. The downside is that it's *really* bad next to Shatter. Maybe it could 'champion' an artifact instead? But then weird things happen when artifact C upgrades artifact B, thus releasing the artifact it had upgraded originally.
DeletePrototype requires Riggers to work (at full value) and Riggers require Prototypes to work (at full value), which is like the problem Populate had, except neither half of this formula is has any critical mass going into the set. Otherwise, it's pretty neat.
I'm a little bit concerned about how much design space upgrade has. Just how many abilities are there that do something on their own AND you want to graft onto your other artifacts? That said, the cards it works on are certainly awesome.
DeleteI'm with Jay all the way when it comes to prototype.
Advance is very close to our most recent iteration of Progress/Iterate. It certainly has the potential to do more and is a bit easier to track, but as you mention, it's really complex for common.
Watchful Golem (4)
ReplyDeleteArtifact Creature - Golem (C)
Upgrade (1) (If you cast this card for its upgrade cost, it's an Aura spell with enchant artifact. It's still an artifact spell.)
(2): Untap Watchful Golem. If Watchful Golem is an Aura, untap enchanted artifact instead.
3/3
"Artifact Enchantment - Aura". Hmm. Feels like it wants to turn into equipment instead, but can't do that with "enchant (noncreature) artifact".
DeleteA related but different idea:
Watchful Splinter (3)
Artifact Creature - Construct (C)
Upgrade (1) (If you cast this card for its upgrade cost, it's an Equipment artifact and not a creature. Otherwise it can't equip a creature.)
Equip (3)
Vigilance
Equipped creature has +2/+2 and vigilance.
2/2
Equipment Bestow is certainly a space worth exploring, but it's going to be very hard to balance the insanity of P/T boosting equipment with creatures needing to do something. In the interest of plausible development, I think we should first try just granting the abilities.
DeleteAlso, this needs a name that doesn't imply that the alternate cost is an additional cost. There are still issues with differentiating an unattached equipment from a creature. This is easily doable with DFCs, but obviously that has some other major costs for the set.
Have we given Living Weapon serious consideration for Tesla? The germ part is weird thematically, but otherwise it could be a great fit.
DeleteI hadn't as such. It's certainly an idea worth exploring. I'd like it better thematically if the weapon gained sentience later rather than just immediately having it.
DeleteLike so?
DeleteSentient Wings 2
Artifact - Equipment (C)
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has flying.
Equip 3
1: If you control no creatures, Sentient Wings becomes a creature with base power and toughness 1/1 and flying. (It can't equip anything)
Haunted Platemail seems like a fun starting point. If this is intended to last indefinitely we're going to need a marker to avoid undue board complexity.
Delete1: If you control no creatures, put an awakening counter on Sentient Wings. It becomes a creature with base power and toughness 1/1 and flying. (It can't equip anything)
DeleteA few 1-in-the-morning thoughts:
Would this be better at sorcery speed?
Would that complicate the card unnecessisarily?
This currently only works if you have no creatures because of the intervening-if clause. It's not quite like Haunted Platemail in that sense.
Should the awakening cost more than 1?
Higher rarities can have different awakening costs; in the vein of Nightmare Lash and Lashwrithe, it'd be cool if a black-flavored one cost life to animate.
What if it only woke up when no one was around? Don't know if anything's gained by it, but it'd be neat: "... becomes a creature with... until another creature enters the battlefield."
I should go to sleep.
I expect the HPM way is better, but:
DeleteSecretly Alive (As long as you control no other creatures, CARDNAME is an N/N artifact creature.)
My main problem with that? What happens when you have two secretly alive equipment?
Octavos Thopter Plans 1
ReplyDeleteArtifact - Schematic (U)
Requirements:
- Control a creature with flying
- Discard an artifact card
- Spend (4)
When you solve Octavos Thopter Plans, put a 5/5 colorless artifact Thopter creature token with flying onto the battlefield and draw a card.
I assume you need to meet all the requirements, not just any one? Probably need to spell that out somewhere.
DeleteCan you discard an artifact card at a different time to spending the {4}? Say, in response to a Mind Rot?
Those nitpicks aside, I really like "quest" kind of mechanics like this, and the idea that Schematic is a subtype present on a whole bunch of these Plans makes me happy.
Yeah, I envisioned it so that you can do them as steps (and at instant speed, although there could easily be "solve only as a sorcery" text on there). For example, having once controlled a creature with flying, you have "solved" that step, and if it dies before you choose to discard a card, it doesn't negate the fact you controlled it once in the eyes of the card.
DeleteIf I can fulfull one part now and the rest five turns later, there needs to be a way to track that stuff.
DeleteIs it intentional that you can solve a schematic any number of times?
Can I spend {4} casting other spells, or am I paying that mana into the schematic?
Counters can likely track it - to save words, maybe little counter/check boxes on the card? It's meant to sac on solving. That was my bad. And yeah, you're paying the mana into the schematic.
DeleteOctavos Thopter Plans {1}
DeleteArtifact - Schematic (U)
If you control a creature with flying — {0}: Put a wing counter on ~.
Discard an artifact card: Put a cog counter on ~.
{4}: Put a sprocket counter on ~.
At end of turn, if Octavos Thopter Plans has a wing, a cog and a sprocket counter on it, sacrifice it. If you do, put a 5/5 colorless artifact Thopter creature token with flying onto the battlefield and draw a card.
Nice template. Perhaps the last ability could be
DeleteIf Octavos Thopter Plans has a wing, a cog and a sprocket counter on it — Sacrifice Octavos Thopter Plans: Put a 5/5 colorless artifact Thopter creature token with flying onto the battlefield and draw a card.
Even slightly streamlined that way, it's still a painful amount of words. Too wordy for common.
I guess taking our cue from Zendikar quests, we could have the common versions use the same trigger multiple times, something like
Siege Engine Plans
Artifact - Schematic (C)
Remove an attacking unblocked creature you control from combat: Put a wheel counter on ~.
Remove three wheel counters from ~ and sacrifice it: Put a 4/4 colourless artifact Juggernaut creature token with trample onto the battlefield and draw a card.
They tried to do almost exactly this for the quests and concluded that it was way too texty and tough to keep track of. I want it to work, but I'm inclined to agree with that analysis.
DeleteThe only way I can see the multiple criteria version working is to need them all at once when you sacrifice the schematic.
Haven't read any of the comments yet. Putting this here to follow up on tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteNext Big Thing (When this artifact ETB, it gains all abilities of artifacts you control.)
Obsolete (Only if you control an artifact worth more — Sacrifice ~: Draw a card.)
These seeds aren't as good as other ideas already proposed.
DeleteObsolete in its present form isn't very exciting, but it gives me an idea:
DeleteObsolete (Whenever you activate an ability of an artifact that's worth more, you may {T} this and sacrifice it. If you do, copy that ability, you may choose new targets for the copy.)
Is better. Might make an interesting common. Probably don't need more than one?
DeleteOff-shoot of outlast:
ReplyDeleteAnderon Battlesuit (4)
Artifact Creature - Golem (U)
Upgrade (2) ((2),(T): Put a +1/+1 counter on this.)
Creatures you control with +1/+1 counters on them have trample.
3/2
Restoration Cylix (1)
Artifact (C)
Upgrade (1) ((1),(T): Put a charge counter on this.)
(1), Remove a charge counter from Restoration Cylix: You gain 2 life.
Kivizium Assembly (4)
Artifact (R)
Upgrade (2) ((2),(T): Put a charge counter on this.)
Whenever Kivizium Assembly upgrades, it deals damage equal to the number of charge counters on it to target creature or player.
(3), Sacrifice Kivizium Assembly: Kivizium Assembly deals damage equal to the number of charge counters on it to target creature or player.
I'm not super excited by the Outlast version, but it's certainly workable if we don't find something more exciting and decide this is space that the set needs filled.
DeleteOff-shoot of reinforce:
ReplyDeleteBooster Soldier (2)
Artifact Creature - Soldier (C)
Enhance 2 - (3) ((3), Discard this: Put two +1/+1 counters on target creature or two charge counters on target artifact.)
2/1
This is cool, though it may be hard to balance the charge counters against combat trick + aura. I guess if we have artifacts that need to be charged up to be used even the first time, we may achieve similar power levels.
DeleteCombine this with Jay's Golemesque, or one of the mechanics that uses charge counters on creatures, too - either "Put two +1/+1 counters on target permanent", or "Put two charge counters on target artifact" could definitely work as "new reinforce".
DeleteI would definitely keep this mechanic in mind moving forward (but I'm also a fan of Reinforce).
Wartorn Golem (4)
ReplyDeleteCreature - Golem (U)
Develop 3 - (2) (renamed/slight reworded version of suspend)
If Wartorn Golem was developed, it enters the battlefield transformed.
3/3
//
Mansmasher 5000
Artifact Creature - Golem (U)
Trample
6/6
Suspend was something of a failure from a comprehension standpoint, so I need a bit more than "renamed/slight reworded" to get on board.
DeleteI think we discussed something like this a year ago and decided against it, but:
DeleteTheoretical Construct {5}
Artifact Creature-Construct (cmn)
Research 2 (From your hand, put CARDNAME face-up under the top 2 cards of your library: When it's on top of your library, you may cast it without paying its mana cost. Turn it face-down if you shuffle.)
3/3
Theoretical Masticore {6}
Artifact Creature-Masticore (rare)
Research 4 (From your hand, put CARDNAME face-up under the top 4 cards of your library: When it's on top of your library, you may cast it without paying its mana cost. Turn it face-down if you shuffle.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, CARDNAME deals 4 damage to target creature.
4/4
I wonder whether player intuition will still require haste granting without it sitting by the battlefield. Probably not.
DeleteI certainly like it better than suspend, though it doesn't solve the issue of looking like you don't have enough to play it when you do (an issue with Evoke for some LSPs). The real make or break for me is whether it gets players to intuitively understand that you're paying the cost with time.
Clanking Gears (0)
ReplyDeleteArtifact (C)
Incorporate (When this enters the battlefield, you may exile any number of artifacts you control. This has all activated abilities of artifacts exiled by it.)
2: Untap Clanking Gears.
Clanking Gears (0)
DeleteArtifact (C)
Incorporate (When this enters the battlefield, you may exile any number of artifacts you control and artifacts exiled by those artifacts. This has all activated abilities of artifacts exiled by it.)
2: Untap Clanking Gears.
Not sure if that rules text works, but it allows you to "go infinite" with your machines.
Also possible to let the other artifacts pop back onto the battlefield after this one leaves, but that's again adding more words.
DeleteI like the concept, especially if version 2 works, but this has the same concern as Inanimate's upgrade: how many relevant abilities to we really have to put on cards with this mechanic?
DeleteShocking Prototype (1)
ReplyDeleteArtifact (U)
(3), T: Shocking Prototype deals 2 damage to target player.
Manufacture (5) ((5), Exile this: Non-creature artifacts you control gain all activated abilities of this as long as it remains exiled.)
I'd much prefer the Prototype not exile itself, and also grant its abilities to creature and non-creature artifacts (as they have said many times talking about Theros, you can get very few non-creatures into a limited deck).
DeleteI also don't like that this grants your other artifacts an activated ability that requires tapping, so that multiple instances of Manufacture work actively against each other.
I much prefer it grant the ability "Whenever ~ becomes tapped, it deals 2 damage to target player." to all your artifacts when manufactured. Unfortunately, it was pretty tricky to template this/
One way to keep this only boosting artifacts is to include a great many artifact creatures at common. One way to ease that shift is with colored artifacts.
DeleteYou misunderstood: I only want it to boost artifacts, I just also want it to boost creature artifacts. The OP specifies "non-creature artifact" which I don't think is correct.
DeleteI agree with Tommy's points. The concerns are:
DeleteIf it has a tap ability, that had better do something.
We don't want this to break when there are 3-4 artifacts affected.
I'm thinking we could try giving you half the effect as the trigger and half as the activation, so you would need three other artifacts (like Metalcraft) before you get ahead.
Shocking Prototype 2
Artifact
Whenever ~ becomes tapped, it deals 1 damage to target player.
{3}, {T}: ~ does 1 damage to target player.
Manufacture (5) ((5), Exile this: Artifacts you control gain all triggered abilities of this as long as it remains exiled.)
I have no idea why you think I misunderstood, Tommy. I thought I was backing your point up.
DeleteOh sorry, I had thought you misunderstood the OP. In any event, no worries!
DeleteSculptor {1}{G}
ReplyDeleteCreature-Bear Artisan
Progress — Whenever you cast an artifact spell more expensive than any you control, put a 1/1 colorless Artifact creature token OTB.
2/2
Goblin Weapons Expert {2}{R}
Creature-Goblin Advisor
Progress — Whenever you cast an artifact spell more expensive than any you control, creatures you control get +1/+0 and gain trample until EOT.
2/2
Hi-Tech Burglar {2}{B}
Creature-Cat Rogue
Progress — Whenever you cast an artifact spell more expensive than any you control, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain life equal to the amount lost this way.
1/3
Mr Wizard {1}{U}
Creature-Wizard
Progress — Whenever you cast an artifact spell more expensive than any you control, draw a card, then pay {4} or discard a card.
0/4
Stout Armorer {1}{W}
Creature-Dwarf Artificer
Progress — Whenever you cast an artifact spell more expensive than any you control, target creature you control gets +1/+2 and gains lifelink until EOT.
2/1
Interesting. I feel that the "pay 4" on Mr. Wizard works against itself because it is encouraging you to play expensive stuff, I would kill that part from the card.
DeleteI do worry about how much variance this injects into game play as far as drawing your artifacts in the right sequence. On the other hand, I like the theme-y ness. I feel this mechanic would encourage a lot of sacrificing artifacts as a theme, so that you can retrigger your Progress abilities.
Would it play better if it was more expensive than your opponent's control?
Agreed.
DeleteI suspect there should be one or two ways to sacrifice artifacts, but not many.
That's interesting too.
I'll note that ways to bounce artifacts here would play double duty, allowing you to get your expensive artifacts off the table either to get the Progress trigger from a cheap one you've drawn, or to just get the Progress trigger from that expensive one again.
DeleteInteresting! Now I'm wondering if in this environment we want the sacrifice outlets to be normal and work better with tokens, but have Lenticular play with Progress, or help players along a bit with cards like Bosh, Iron Golem.
DeleteI've proposed this kind of mechanic before:
ReplyDeleteThoughtsharer 5
Artifact (U)
Develop(You may sacrifice an artifact as this enters the battlefield. If you do, it's upgraded.)
3, T: Draw a card. If Thoughtsharer is upgraded, draw two cards instead.
Unwilling Experiment 1B
Art: Terrified soldier with metal grafted to his body.
Creature - Human Soldier (C)
Develop(You may sacrifice an artifact as this enters the battlefield. If you do, it's upgraded.)
As long as Unwilling Experiment is upgraded, it has intimidate.
2/1
Steel Quarry
Land (R)
Develop(You may sacrifice an artifact as this enters the battlefield. If you do, it's upgraded.)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. If Steel Quarry is upgraded, instead add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Alternatively, and riffing off of Aura riffing off of reinforce:
Spike-Plated Automaton 3
Artifact Creature - Construct (U)
First strike
Reinforce 2--4R (4R, Discard this card: Put 2 +1/+1 counters on target creature.)
When Spike-Plated Automaton reinforces a creature, that creature gains first strike until end of turn.
2/2
Obviously more complex and probably never at common, but an idea. Feedback appreciated as always.
I like Thoughtsharer because it can recoup the card disadvantage (and then some), but the others feel like a loss. Could path with a bunch of cheap cantrip artifacts, but I'd rather fix by just making upgrades generally stronger. Mechanically, I like it. Newbies won't love breaking their own stuff. Thematically, it doesn't feel like progress, as much as proactive scavenging.
DeleteReinforce on artifacts groks pretty easily, and might be nice R/W mechanical space if one of the research/upgrades trended more U/G.
DeleteDevelop is probably fun to play, but I'm worried it will read like too much downside. If we use it, we definitely need a marker that the card is upgraded. Counterspells aside, there's very little reason to have this as an etb trigger rather than an additional cost. Lands offer a lot less space than instants and sorceries.
DeleteFor clarity: The current wording is "as this enters the battlefield", which implies that it's already resolving. If that's hard to parse, it could just be ETB.
DeleteAs for a marker: Augment (You may sacrifice an artifact as this enters the battlefield. If you do, put an augment counter on this. It's upgraded.)
Sorry Jules: Do you prefer ETB or additional cost?
I prefer the additional cost for the added design space of putting this on instants and sorceries. If for some reason we don't want those, I agree the etb version plays slightly better on permanents.
DeleteA teak of Champion, but as a cost reduction effect.
ReplyDeleteTranshuman Goliath 4GG
Creature - Human Splicer 6/4
Upgrade 2GG (You may cast this for it's upgrade cost if you control a Splicer. When this enters the battlefield, exile a TYPE until this leaves the battledfield.)
What type are you exiling?
DeleteA creature-type bonded sort of chaining-champion could sell the feel of progress. Pokémon evolutions as a precedent? A whole "splicer faction" could exist/be draftable and kind of operate alongside-but-separate-from other schemes for progress. Human -> Human -> Artifact, maybe, for the transhuman/Teslan flavor point.
Sorry, TYPE was Splicer, same as earler in the reminder text. If Kamigawa Block hadn't already stolen the name, I'd have named the keyeword Splice as well.
DeleteI was thinking of this in terms of Allies in Zendikar. What do you think of the weirdness that occurs when you upgrade a creature that's upgraded another creature?
Turn 1: Play a 1/1 Splicer.
Turn 2: Exile the 1/1 to play a 3/3 Splicer with Upgrade 1G.
Turn 3: Exile the 3/3, to play a 4/4 Splicer with Upgrade 2G. The 1/1 comes back.
I'm okay with this interaction from a play standpoint, and it's very attractive to players. It reads fair. But does it meet the theme of advancment? Does a smaller creature returning when the upgraded creature died feel like a leap backwards, or is the effect invisible and not detract from the tone of the theme?
Intentional change that I can cast this for less, sack my splicer to another effect with this spell on the stack, and still get this upgraded with no downside?
DeleteCan we make this closer to Offering (e.g. Patron of the Orochi)?
DeleteUpgrade (You may cast this card by exiling a creature that shares a creature type with it until it leaves the battlefield and paying the difference in mana costs between this and the exiled creature. Mana cost includes color.)
Admittedly it's really weird to start the exile effect while this is on the stack, and it'll feel terrible the first time you get one of these countered.
@Jay Other than the Wurm's-in-Boots flavor fail of being able to sacrifice your Splicer, I don't have a problem with allowing players to discover this interaction in other formats. It's not like we're working with a sacrifice theme this is butting up against. Plus, that action will leave you without a Splicer to upgrade if they remove the Splicer that originated the stack trick.
Delete@Jules Speaking of removal, I specifically avoided Offering requirement style wording to make these work no matter what your opponent does to the Splicer on the battlefield or the Splicer spell on the stack. By removing all the clauses that complicate reminder text and create two-for-one potential, we end up with something more like Bestow in play style. It really squelches any feeling of this being a Downside Mechanic.
Oops, I thought Blade Splicer was a creature type Splicer, but really it's an Artificer. Making a tibal Artificer mechanic for Tesla appeals to me, even if it's something else. But Upgrade has a lot of potential. First with french vanilla mix-and-matches:
DeleteGoblin Rockeeter 3R (UNC)
Creature - Goblin Artificer 3/1
Upgrade 1R (You may cast this for it's upgrade cost if you control an Artificer. When this enters the battlefield, exile an Artificer until this leaves the battledfield.)
Intimidate, haste
Swiftlane Zephyr 3UU (UNC)
Creature - Faerie Artificer 2/3
Flash
Flying
Upgrade 3U (You may cast this for it's upgrade cost if you control an Artificer. When this enters the battlefield, exile an Artificer until this leaves the battledfield.)
Cheap enablers that like to be the target of an upgrade:
Eerie Chimneysweep B (COM)
Creature - Horror Artificer 1/1
When Eerie Chimneysweep enters the battlefield or leaves the battlefield, exile target card from a graveyard.
Plus Upgrade triggers!
Cogworks Mechanist 1W (RAR)
Creature - Human Artificer 2/2
Upgrade 2W (You may cast this for it's upgrade cost if you control an Artificer. When this enters the battlefield, exile an Artificer until this leaves the battledfield.)
When NAME enters the battlefield, if its Upgrade cost was paid, return target artifact card with converted mana cost 1 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Happy Maker {1}{W}
DeleteCreature - Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact, you may pay {X}. If you do, gain X life.
2/2
Bigger Maker {1}{U}
Creature - Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact, you may pay {1}. If you do, draw a card, then discard a card.
1/3
Scary Maker {2}{B}
Creature - Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact creature, you may pay {1}. If you do, ~ gains intimidate until EOT.
3/1
Faster Maker {R}
Creature - Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact creature, you may pay {1}. If you do, it gains haste until EOT.
1/1
Bigger Maker {1}{G}
Creature - Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact creature, you may pay {1}. If you do, it ETB with a +1/+1 counter on it.
2/2
Jay, these don't feel like they're getting better over time (even if they are because you have more mana).
DeleteThese aren't getting better over time, they're improving your artifacts. They ARE the progress.
DeleteThat said, this one cycle shows how quickly I ran out of ways to have them make your artifacts more artifact-y rather than just rewarding playing artifacts.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteLooks like a riff on the smith cycle from Scars of Mirrodin, (Myrsmith, Riddlesmith, Painsmith, Embersmith, and Lifesmith.) I like the design that triggers off casting an artifact creature for a cycle of common smiths, since it can create one-for one combat boosts to break stalemates. That's just rewarding you for playing artifact creatures, but still seems fun.
DeleteArmorsmith (COM) 1W
Creature - Artificer 2/2
Whenever you cast an artifact creature spell, you may pay 1. If you do, target creature gains first strike until end of turn.
Glidersmith (COM) 1U
Creature - Artificer 2/1
Whenever you cast an artifact creature spell, you may pay 1. If you do, target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Syphonsmith (COM) 2B
Creature - Artificer 2/3
Whenever you cast an artifact creature spell, you may pay 1. If you do, target creature gains lifelink until end of turn.
Hammersmith (COM) R
Creature - Artificer 1/1
Whenever you cast an artifact creature spell, you may pay 1. If you do, target creature gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
Helmsmith (COM) 2U
Creature - Artificer 3/3
Whenever you cast an artifact creature spell, you may pay 1. If you do, target creature gains trample until end of turn.
Forgot about the smiths. Very similar, indeed.
DeleteNarcbound Crusher {4}
Artifact Creature — Juggernaut
Trample
Whenever another artifact enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on Narcbound Crusher.
2/2
Artifact Discounter {1}{U}
Creature - Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact, untap target permanent.
1/3
Engineer (You may pay an additional {1} to cast artifact creature spells. If you do, they enter the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter on them.)
DeleteThis is a pretty cool keyword that scales up well, like Extort or Exalted. I like it a lot. I like it on non artifact permanents, maybe a few artifact creatures. And, using Gild or Goblin Kaboomist technology, I like it on spells.
DeletePinpoint Blast (COM) 2R
Sorcery
Target creature can’t block this turn.
Put a Cog artifact token with engineer onto the battlefield. (You may pay an additional 1 to cast artifact creature spells. If you do, they enter the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter on them.)
I like Engineer.
DeleteI'd prefer something like this to Pinpoint Blast:
Distracting Machinery (COM) 2R
Sorcery
Target creature can’t block this turn.
Put a Cog artifact token onto the battlefield with "Whenever an artifact creature ETB under your control, you may sacrifice this. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature."
Honestly, I'm not loving Jay's one and done, Eldrazi-Spawn-style token because there's nothing fun or compeling about it. Either to build around, or to use in the middle of a game. It's super spikey. It requires you to make the best decision as to when to sacrifice to generate a counter. (Playing around counterspells, removal etc.) Make the wrong choice and all your setup was for nothing. Is that fun? The original version with an artifact token (or other nontoken permanent type or whatever) that sits on the board and makes your artifact creature spells more flexible demands attention on its own. Sure they can shatter the Cog or bounce it, but you don't also lose your artifact creature in the process. Plus, sacrificing for an additional +1/+1 counter one time does not feel like technological advancement the same way an Exalted effect does.
DeleteI also don't like the one-and-done cog, but I don't like the reusable cog either: it adds complexity to the game but not interactivity. It's never going to be worth Shattering a cog instead of an actual artifact, unless Shatters are so plentiful that it's not worth playing artifacts.
DeleteIn an artifact rich set, I take it as a given that there will be a ton of artifact removal for limited and constructed.
DeleteDid we already discuss this idea in an earlier post?
ReplyDeleteMana Stone {2}
Artifact
Prototype (You may cast artifact cards from your hand as a copy of this one.)
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
Protonaut {4}
Artifact Creature-Juggernaut
CARDNAME attacks each turn if able.
Prototype (You may cast artifact cards from your hand as a copy of this one.)
5/3
Plague Bot {3}
Artifact Creature-Rat
CARDNAME's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards named CARDNAME you control.
Prototype (You may cast artifact cards from your hand as a copy of this one.)
*/*
I like this as a one-off rare, but sticking it on a lot of cards seems like it would lead to memory issues trying to track what you made a copy of what.
DeleteBetween Aura's point and repetitive gameplay concerns, I also vote we stick with the Essence of the Wild precedent and put this on one high-rarity card.
DeleteYes. Agreed.
DeleteEdging off-topic, but… Living Weapon meets Totem Armor:
ReplyDeleteHusk Flayer {1}
Artifact-Equipment (cmn)
Soul Not Required (When equipped creature dies, if it's colored, put a 0/0 colorless Spirit token OTB, then attach this to it.)
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Equip {2}
Slicersickle {2}
Artifact-Equipment (unc)
Soul Not Required (When equipped creature dies, if it's colored, put a 0/0 colorless Spirit token OTB, then attach this to it.)
Equipped creature gets +2/+2.
Equip {4}
Hoardbone {2}
Artifact-Equipment (rare)
Soul Not Required (When equipped creature dies, if it's colored, put a 0/0 colorless Spirit token OTB, then attach this to it.)
Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards.
Equip {4}
This is pretty much exactly what I wanted when you mentioned Living Weapon above. My only concern is a development one: equipment already take over grindy games and this just adds to the issue.
DeleteThe only real fixes I see are the trigger requiring you to pay the equip cost (which will add feel-bad moments and slow down games) or making the base tokens 0/1s or 1/1s so that the equipment don't need to pump your creatures and thus don't make every new creature dominate the board.
The flavor I barely scratched at is that the gear animates your body after your dead. We could make that more explicit, reducing their power in boosting creatures, but boosting their value in preserving them:
DeleteScary Helmet {1}
Artifact-Equipment (unc)
Equipped creature gains intimidate.
Nerve Center (When equipped creature dies, if it's not a zombie, return it to the battlefield with no abilities. It becomes a zombie in addition to its other creature types. Attach CARDNAME to it. When this becomes unattached, if equipped creature is a zombie, sacrifice it.)
Equip {4}
But that's both wordy and awkward (and breaks */* creatures) (and is a rare, not a keyword).
It seems crucial that the token have 0 toughness, so that we can't equip to something else and keep the off-spring.
Tried to use Grafted Wargear and/or totem armor, but all the results felt too much like auras.
I posted this above, but I'll tweak it for this thread:
DeleteSentient Wings 2
Artifact - Equipment (C)
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has flying.
Equip 3
Sentience--When equipped creature dies, Sentient Wings becomes a creature with base power and toughness 1/1 and flying. (It can't equip anything)
I like that, but if it's not reusable, why not an aura?
DeleteAs worded currently, an aura with sentience would die to SBEs before it could become a creature. Not sure how to fix that without getting head-scratching wording.
DeleteLevel-Up type frame:
ReplyDeleteTricorder {2}
Artifact (C)
Advance (Whenever ~ becomes untapped, put an advancement counter on it.)
{2}, {T}: You gain 1 life.
[[2-3] {T}: You gain 1 life.]
[[4+] {T}: You gain 3 life.]
I can dig it. Why not charge counters?
DeleteMostly just because it sounded like getting a bigger battery, not new tech. Backwards compatibility probably trumps flavor here.
DeleteLevel-up for artifacts is a great idea and sounds exactly like advanced technology to me. Why not just make it that?
DeleteYeah, I agree with lpaulsen, just use level up with level counters on artifacts.
DeleteStatic Generator (UNC) 2
Artifact
Level up 2 (2: Put a level counter on this. Level up only as a sorcery.)
3, T: Tap target creature.
LEVEL 2-4
2, T: Tap or untap target creature.
LEVEL 5+
1, T: Tap target creature, and untap another target creature.
Spark Plug {2}
ReplyDeleteArtifact (C)
Update (Whenever another artifact enters the battlefield under your control, you may have ~ become a copy of it. If you do, sacrifice ~ at the beginning of the next end step.)
{2}, {T}: ~ deals 1 damage to target player.
Update (Whenever another artifact enters the battlefield under your control, you may have ~ become a copy of it until EOT.)
Delete…seems more appealing.
Yeah, this is a classic "started somewhere else, failed to take a step back to look at the finished product" deal. Your's is much better.
DeletePower Source {3}
ReplyDeleteArtifact (C)
Upgrade (Whenever ~ becomes tapped, you may reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal an artifact worth 1 more. If you do, put it onto the battlefield tapped and the rest as well as ~ on the bottom of your library in a random order.)
{T}: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Self-replacing cascade? Needs templating work, but very interesting.
Deletenow leaving the box:
ReplyDeleteMishra's Avenger {3}
Artifact Creature-Shapeshifter
Whenever you cast CARDNAME, choose:
—Haste
—Vigilance
—CARDNAME costs {2}.
—CARDNAME's power is 3.
Cards you own named CARDNAME have that ability until your next match.
2/2
Alternately, can we make progress cards that work like the hidden agenda conspiracies?
DeleteResearcher {2}{U}
Creature-Vedalken Artificer (cmn)
When CARDNAME ETB, research (Put an upgrade into your command zone.)
1/3
Efficiency Research
Upgrade
Public agenda (Name a card when this enters your command zone.)
Artifacts with the chosen name you cast cost 1 less to cast.
I like the outside-the-box thinking, but it seems like these goals are more easily accomplished by Slivers.
DeleteSlivers like progress…
DeleteAs do Allies…
DeleteJay: Why introduce a new card type when we could consider something like this:
DeleteResearcher {2}{U}
Creature - Vedalken Scientist (C)
When Researcher enters the battlefield, invent. (You may cast an artifact card you own from outside the game.)
2/2
Does it need to be a keyword action? Probably not - we could probably make it a pseudo, Invent, that indicates this trigger / ability allows you to cast artifacts you own from outside the game.
Ardarnok Plating (1)
ReplyDeleteArtifact - Equipment (C)
Rig (2) ((2): If this has no rig counters on it, put one on it, then put a 1/1 colorless artifact Construct creature token onto the battlefield and attach this to it. Rig only as a sorcery.)
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Equip (2)
Wordy, and sort of clunky in that it's dumping counters on an equipment, but a "living weapon"-esque idea.
Possessive Axe (3)
DeleteArtifact - Equipment (U)
Possess (When the equipped creature would die, transform this and exile the creature it's attached to possessed by this.)
Equipped creature gets +3/+2 and has trample.
Equip (4)
//
Axeling Marauder
Artifact Creature - Warrior (U)
Trample
Axeling Marauder gets +X/+0, where X is the converted mana cost of the card it's possessing.
3/2
Some weird idea that was inspired by this.
I like the idea behind possess, but I want some added consistency. Can we keep the creature the same size? I'd like to try: the equipment always turns over to the same stats and gets both power and toughness from the creature.
DeleteThat is probably cleaner, yeah.
Delete