tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post3935799630338958000..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Tesla: Design Challenge 061715—AutomationUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-17733464071582952072015-06-19T10:43:31.217-04:002015-06-19T10:43:31.217-04:00I was thinking you wouldn't pay mana when an a...I was thinking you wouldn't pay mana when an artifact activates itself, which is why I didn't say "you must activate it" or something. Debatable.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-80658077421244080382015-06-19T05:35:07.844-04:002015-06-19T05:35:07.844-04:00This subthread reminds me of Chris Howlett's W...This subthread reminds me of Chris Howlett's WIP custom set <a href="http://www.magicmultiverse.net/cardsets/14/visualspoiler" rel="nofollow">Arcunda</a>, and especially the cards with Accumulate such as <a href="http://www.magicmultiverse.net/cards/1446" rel="nofollow">Collegium Loreseeker</a> and <a href="http://www.magicmultiverse.net/cards/3375" rel="nofollow">Cisaean Windcaller</a>. Playtesting that set led to changing Accumulate from "(At the beginning of your upkeep, put a charge counter on this)" to "(When this enters the battlefield and at the beginning of your upkeep, put a charge counter on it.)"AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88023342385645592072015-06-19T02:12:09.222-04:002015-06-19T02:12:09.222-04:00Jules: Handily, it keys off a bad thing for you, w...Jules: Handily, it keys off a bad thing for you, which can make it feel like its 'profiting from your loss'. Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-50411989408332469862015-06-19T02:11:24.848-04:002015-06-19T02:11:24.848-04:00Ben: EXCELLENT ideas here! Love 'em all.
I a...Ben: EXCELLENT ideas here! Love 'em all. <br /><br />I agree that a unified activation cost is a good idea.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-33129187149402030952015-06-19T02:09:54.687-04:002015-06-19T02:09:54.687-04:00Jules: I see a downside and two more upsides to se...Jules: I see a downside and two more upsides to self-mill:<br /><br />Downside: "We didn't realize until it was too late" is also a negative - players should be able to keenly feel the cost. Milling is kinda an 'invisible loss' until you realize, oops, I only have 10 cards left in my library. Still, since newbies fear it a lot more than they should, and more experienced players understand the 'cost', I don't think this is a serious downside. Just something to check carefully in playtesting with LSPs.<br /><br />Two upsides:<br /><br />1.) It serves as a great cost, since it only becomes a serious detriment if you let it sit there for a long time, or if you go all-in on the rogue AI strategy. This is good, since it means more players can play a few rogue AIs in their decks and experience the fun, without worrying about killing themselves!<br /><br />2.) Laboratory Maniac will become a super-amazing reprint. :DInanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-63596828865073793192015-06-18T22:31:16.068-04:002015-06-18T22:31:16.068-04:00Walking Bellows 4
Artifact Creature - Construct
...Walking Bellows 4<br />Artifact Creature - Construct<br />When ~ attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on target artifact creature you control.<br />Artifact creatures with +1/+1 counters on them attack each turn if able.<br />2/2Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-66585177108509389772015-06-18T20:49:20.761-04:002015-06-18T20:49:20.761-04:00I echo the rest; I think Awaken is excellent and s...I echo the rest; I think Awaken is excellent and should be playtested with various downside/upside activations:<br /><br />Sac a creature, get a Golem<br />Exile cards from hand, draw a card<br />Pay life, target player loses life<br />-1/-1 counter on your creature, pump a creature for a turn<br />Discard 2 cards, return one from the yard<br />Exile library cards, mill another player<br />Exile graveyard cards, search for basic lands and put in hand/gain life<br /><br />I do think there should be reminder text if, as I suspect, you don't have to pay mana when an awakened ai activates itself.<br /><br />I expect, like manifest almost always used top of library, there will be a significantly better way to have an activation cost (Like most abilities would exile cards from your library as a cost or something)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393054869276886509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87577524298154052962015-06-18T20:31:18.743-04:002015-06-18T20:31:18.743-04:00I could see this on a cycle of rares in Tesla hint...I could see this on a cycle of rares in Tesla hinting at what's to come in Edison, but as Jay saw in making this rare, it's hard to hang the design's hat on it.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19405216868148026322015-06-18T20:26:31.994-04:002015-06-18T20:26:31.994-04:00Awaken is beautiful. Can the reminder text say &qu...Awaken is beautiful. Can the reminder text say "without you paying for them" or something to that effect?Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-75730670615541126152015-06-18T20:23:14.503-04:002015-06-18T20:23:14.503-04:00I'd look at self-mill for our common downside....I'd look at self-mill for our common downside. It takes longer to get out of hand, which gives it a lot more potential for the whole "we didn't realize until it was too late" dynamic.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-36934201521233698792015-06-18T20:20:14.682-04:002015-06-18T20:20:14.682-04:00I'd forgotten that one! Definitely needs some ...I'd forgotten that one! Definitely needs some iteration, but it hits the feeling on the nose.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-92162055999458961452015-06-18T20:19:06.774-04:002015-06-18T20:19:06.774-04:00In the same vein, take a look at Lightning Coils. ...In the same vein, take a look at <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46109" rel="nofollow">Lightning Coils</a>. It doesn't always do what you would choose, but it's always on your side.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-27836115308412766182015-06-18T20:17:12.438-04:002015-06-18T20:17:12.438-04:00Ditto to what Inanimate said. Good job!Ditto to what Inanimate said. Good job!Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-22123712629967973172015-06-18T20:15:58.114-04:002015-06-18T20:15:58.114-04:00Agreed. To me this version feels something like &q...Agreed. To me this version feels something like "harnessing the machines' potential".Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-68662752364391375042015-06-18T20:14:00.268-04:002015-06-18T20:14:00.268-04:00Interesting take. I'm a little skittish about ...Interesting take. I'm a little skittish about having a central mechanic read like a downside. How would people feel if they did something small and positive repeatedly which you have to fulfill a condition to upgrade?<br /><br />E.g. "At the beginning of your end step, untap target creature you control. Put a +1/+1 counter on it if an artifact entered the battlefield under your control this turn."Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-11636022559990440132015-06-18T18:10:38.685-04:002015-06-18T18:10:38.685-04:00I love Awaken. I assume you don't have to pay ...I love Awaken. I assume you don't have to pay any mana for something that's Awakened. Amusing implausible Jenny combos with things like Cytoshape plus Door to Nothingness.<br /><br />(I don't love how much better this particular example is than Jayemdae Tome and Urza's Blueprints, but those are details that dev can easily tweak.)<br /><br />Robot Rule is an intriguing take on the same idea but annoyingly complex. In most cases it won't actually be worth avoiding casting your coloured creatures for it, or if it is then that might be somewhat feel-bad.AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-42095864078246975562015-06-18T18:08:54.596-04:002015-06-18T18:08:54.596-04:00Robot Rule feels too complex but its flavor is sup...Robot Rule feels too complex but its flavor is super cute.<br /><br />Awaken is AMAZING. One of my favorite things in Magic are lines of text that make you shudder - "End the turn", "The land continues to burn", and so on. And I think "this artifact activates its own abilities" is a beautiful line of text.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-26218988150970153762015-06-18T17:53:54.014-04:002015-06-18T17:53:54.014-04:00Not if, say, I wanted to attack with Serra Angel w...Not if, say, I wanted to attack with Serra Angel wearing Lightning Greaves. But that's a pretty silly edge case.AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-43661660743056232602015-06-18T17:45:17.654-04:002015-06-18T17:45:17.654-04:00Very good point, which I overlooked completely.Very good point, which I overlooked completely.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-44203295035649973692015-06-18T17:44:13.837-04:002015-06-18T17:44:13.837-04:00Maniacal Librarion {3}
Artifact (unc)
{2}, {T}: Ex...Maniacal Librarion {3}<br />Artifact (unc)<br />{2}, {T}: Exile the top two cards of your library, then draw a card.<br />Robot Rule <i>(As long as you control a creature, and all creatures you control are artifacts, you can't activate abilities of ~ and it activates its own abilities at the beginning of your upkeep.)</i>Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-83800931187855506842015-06-18T17:41:29.770-04:002015-06-18T17:41:29.770-04:00Turns out that anytime you're forced to give a...Turns out that anytime you're forced to give an opposing creature flying, it doesn't matter, because you don't have any creatures to block it anyhow.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-62810447744318011692015-06-18T17:39:46.547-04:002015-06-18T17:39:46.547-04:00Maniacal Librarion {2}
Artifact (unc)
{2}, {T}: Ex...Maniacal Librarion {2}<br />Artifact (unc)<br />{2}, {T}: Exile the top two cards of your library, then draw a card.<br />Awaken {4} <i>({4}: You can no longer activate abilities of ~. At the beginning of your upkeep, ~ activates its own abilities.)</i>Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-84184933257717910362015-06-18T16:39:08.386-04:002015-06-18T16:39:08.386-04:00Great ideas here. I agree that something with an o...Great ideas here. I agree that something with an obvious cost like Jay's Walker Foundry and Bone Grinder are fine, but I think even AlexC's Walker Foundry is fine. We just need to hint at the flavor of Automation, not really capture it 100%.<br /><br />In addition, we can capture the feeling of rebellion in other ways - they don't have to rebel against you. If you're the player making all the robots, then perhaps you could also be the player that leads them in their rebellion, flavorfully - right? So we could see:<br /><br />Walker Foundry, Inanimate Version {7}<br />Artifact<br />At the beginning of your upkeep, put a 1/1 colorless Construct artifact creature token onto the battlefield.<br />Tap five artifact creatures you control: Each opponent sacrifices a non-artifact creature.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-83043127910801942892015-06-18T16:29:49.196-04:002015-06-18T16:29:49.196-04:00This is a very clever way to use progress!
I like...This is a very clever way to use progress!<br /><br />I like the card a lot, and it's a perfect template to use for other cards in a cycle. It doesn't feel as bad as a downside mechanic, and that's good.<br /><br />The 'target creature gains flying' part is interesting, because sometimes it'll give your opponent's creatures flying. I'm going to assume that was intentional?Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-13786891722847724012015-06-18T16:28:29.411-04:002015-06-18T16:28:29.411-04:00Also, in my proposed Aware mechanic, we can put th...Also, in my proposed Aware mechanic, we can put the downside outside of the keyword itself, and have it be unique to each card with Aware.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.com