tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post4299416708821541139..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Tesla Horizons: Look to the FutureUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-85901510377143436352015-04-19T16:56:07.578-04:002015-04-19T16:56:07.578-04:00I was actually proposing that you can cast its bac...I was actually proposing that you can cast its backside, or cast its frontside and wait for it to grow into its backside.<br /><br />Preventing the backside from being cast certainly simplifies the mechanic, but I also think it makes it far less interesting.<br /><br />Jules, I agree that counting down is probably the better idea. I preferred counting up for some minor reasons:<br /><br />1.) If we do effects on the frontside, this lets us key the effects to how long it's been timecharged.<br />2.) It lets cards that add charge counters from previous sets interact with timecharge in a positive manner.<br /><br />But yeah, counting down - and changing it to time counters - would a good idea.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739701478436262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-74994111181265810322015-04-19T14:21:37.168-04:002015-04-19T14:21:37.168-04:00I think the proposal is just to cast the front sid...I think the proposal is just to cast the front side as a normal spell and then when it gets enough counters it will flip over. This has a lot of advantages over Develop. The biggest downsides are 1. Having to use DFCs, which are logistically complex (but possibly an already sunk cost for Tesla) and 2. No clear "ticking down to 0", you have to remember each card's threshold.<br /><br />The second one seems easy to solve by making it ETB with counters and removing them instead. I'm excited to try this version!Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88710659501337783022015-04-19T14:07:19.028-04:002015-04-19T14:07:19.028-04:00IR is likely hopeless for Modern, but I think it&#...IR is likely hopeless for Modern, but I think it's actually very easy to push for Standard ramp and/or control decks. You make a reasonable but slightly below playable permanent and then give it some awesome back side reward, just like Shaman of Forgotten Ways.<br /><br />E.g.<br />Recycling Plant {2}<br />Artifact (R)<br />{T}, Discard a card: Draw a card.<br />Industrial Revolution (Tap 10 untapped permanents you control: For the rest of the game, cards you control with Industrial Revolution are transformed.)<br />//<br />{T}, Discard a card: Draw a card for each artifact card in your graveyard.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-20585982542223783742015-04-19T13:55:11.874-04:002015-04-19T13:55:11.874-04:00I'm not convinced draw triggers are a complete...I'm not convinced draw triggers are a complete dead end, but for the reasons others have noted I do think they'd require a set to be heavily crafted around them. For a start, I'd want multiple cantrips in every color and non-removal ways to stop the triggers (e.g. Turn to Mist).Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-47564516756793358772015-04-19T13:24:59.994-04:002015-04-19T13:24:59.994-04:00Both Science Bear and Science Hellion are way und...Both Science Bear and Science Hellion are way undercosted. Unfortunately, making them more expensive, well... <br /><br />It is such a development nightmare to have "costs more" because it ties your hand behind your back about cost. <br /><br />For the record, I think just a 4R 4/4 with ETC destroy target land is already over costed. They did just print Survey the Wreckage. I also want to keep "must play" land destruction out of the expensive cards set. <br /><br />I do think the "when dies" trigger feels good, but that is because it is basically a no effort two for one, and WOTC is incredibly careful about those these days (one of my favorite parts of modern design philosophy). <br /><br />It's not that you can't print cards with free two for ones, obviously you can, but they end up being unappealingly expensive, like Vengeful Vampire. I think a set certainly has room for one or two cards that die to something more expensive as a bit of grease to get things going in that general direction. <br /><br />I think a 1GG 2/2 with "When ~ dies, reveal cards until you reveal one costing 4 or more..." would probably be the best Green common in the set, but is within the realm we could consider it (and I really like the "best [COLOR] common" slot being occupied by something relevant to the set's themes, something WOTC has historically been very poor about.)Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-90732975472090499532015-04-19T10:19:43.290-04:002015-04-19T10:19:43.290-04:00I feel like it would be a lot of fun to block a 6/...I feel like it would be a lot of fun to block a 6/6 with my 2/2 who's long since been outclassed and get a more relevant card from my deck for doing so. We wouldn't put this mechanic on bombs, and only on expensive spells that also give you something else.<br /><br />Science Hellion {4}{R}<br />4/4 Hellion (unc)<br />When ~ ETB, destroy target land.<br />When ~ dies, do science.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-20979458408633941022015-04-18T18:20:28.224-04:002015-04-18T18:20:28.224-04:00I like Exploit, though that is mostly because they...I like Exploit, though that is mostly because they give you so many ways to use it without sacrificing a card. Saccing one of my three Hordling Outburst tokens or a Palace Familiar isn't really saccing a creature. Also, saccing another creature lets me feel clever, in a way that a creature saccing itself does not. <br /><br />And, in the time since I said that, I do have to admit there is the occasional creature I enjoy saccing, like Yavimaya Elder. But, overall, my cutting room floor is littered with creatures with sac effects where I've learned time and again through play testing "this just isn't fun." Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-49152907938960250402015-04-18T16:48:52.992-04:002015-04-18T16:48:52.992-04:00I guess you dislike Exploit.I guess you dislike Exploit.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88935992202697698562015-04-18T16:47:37.603-04:002015-04-18T16:47:37.603-04:00Science Bear {1}{G}
2/2 Bear
Whenever ~ dies, do s...Science Bear {1}{G}<br />2/2 Bear<br />Whenever ~ dies, do science. <i>(Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a more expensive card. Put into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.)</i>Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-90591637865813883142015-04-18T14:06:54.518-04:002015-04-18T14:06:54.518-04:00Sac abilities just always feel bad. No matter how...Sac abilities just always feel bad. No matter how awesome it is, even I, at the Spikier end of the spectrum (and having been playing for more than 20 years) die a little inside. New players are far more attached.<br /><br />I picture Aspire sticking to lands and instants/sorceries to avoid the feel bad moment when you play your 2 mana 2/2 and later you wish you'd kept it in hand to Aspire.Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-20289345560887818382015-04-18T13:24:14.743-04:002015-04-18T13:24:14.743-04:00The problem with sacrifice is that it wants to be ...The problem with sacrifice is that it wants to be done at sorcery speed.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-71093591440713184702015-04-18T12:09:10.665-04:002015-04-18T12:09:10.665-04:00Cog in the Wheels of Progress (Sacrifice ~: Reveal...Cog in the Wheels of Progress (Sacrifice ~: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a more expensive card. Put into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.)Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-64072384151444901232015-04-18T00:52:24.324-04:002015-04-18T00:52:24.324-04:00I like Aspire {5} ({5}, discard this card: Reveal ...I like Aspire {5} ({5}, discard this card: Reveal the top 8 cards of your library. Put one of them with the highest CMC into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.) as about the space I'd like to try. <br /><br />It would not take a ton of cards with this, perhaps a common land cycle, one other common cycle, and an uncommon cycle, in order to push the presence of expensive cards way up. Also, costing it at 5 prevents any worry about it acting as a tutor in constructed. Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-55029106303169551142015-04-18T00:35:20.182-04:002015-04-18T00:35:20.182-04:00Everything Inanimate said. Landfall is interestin...Everything Inanimate said. Landfall is interesting because it is on the other side of "once a turn" line. <br /><br />Also, I think they invested way too much effort making other colors interact with lands in Zendikar. Cards like Ruin Ghost are really ugly to me. Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-35491442137302507752015-04-17T22:27:56.797-04:002015-04-17T22:27:56.797-04:00Lands are NOWHERE NEAR once a turn.
Cards are gua...Lands are NOWHERE NEAR once a turn.<br /><br />Cards are guaranteed at the start of your turn. A land is anything but. Making a set that encourages you to play lands drastically alters what effects you're looking for - some effects that normally would be ignored are not. And the unreliability of drawing a land pushes players to include more lands in their decks, to more reliably trigger landfall - which is an interesting deckbuilding decision.<br /><br />Card draw is entirely different. You will ALWAYS draw a card at the start of your turn, barring very unusual circumstances. And drawing cards is ALREADY good. It doesn't significantly alter the draft order of cards, or the priority of cards, or give a new dimension to them.Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-56607154127997183002015-04-17T22:09:32.167-04:002015-04-17T22:09:32.167-04:00obviously every color would need more card draw th...obviously every color would need more card draw than usual in such a set. <br />But every color could get a common "divination" in this set: night's whisper, tormenting whisper, a two card hunter's Insight, survival cache. It's like saying "Don't do landfall because only green gets rampant growth and its basically just a once a turn trigger anyway."Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-15387254131636453492015-04-17T22:09:21.187-04:002015-04-17T22:09:21.187-04:00obviously every color would need more card draw th...obviously every color would need more card draw than usual in such a set. <br />But every color could get a common "divination" in this set: night's whisper, tormenting whisper, a two card hunter's Insight, survival cache. It's like saying "Don't do landfall because only green gets rampant growth and its basically just a once a turn trigger anyway."Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-27887782482772922412015-04-17T18:54:17.280-04:002015-04-17T18:54:17.280-04:00Tommy: Higher costed Aspire sounds like a great id...Tommy: Higher costed Aspire sounds like a great idea. Cycling is cheap and is for early game - Aspire is more expensive, reliable, and for late game. Seems like an interesting dynamic.<br /><br />Jules: I think Cycling works better to convey 'modal', but I agree that sac-ing from play could be interesting. Perhaps Aspire N is a keyword action rather than a cycling-like keyword? On most cards it could be used as an alternate mode - {X}, discard this card: Aspire N - but on a few it could serve other purposes?Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-30476419469768648512015-04-17T18:52:31.767-04:002015-04-17T18:52:31.767-04:00I considered "noncreature permanents", b...I considered "noncreature permanents", but the fact we're tapping and going for the flavor of a revolution <i>really</i> pushes for the inclusion of creatures.<br /><br />If the flavor was of a "breakthrough" or something, and the trigger was controlling rather than tapping, it could work. Inanimatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440653491352410437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-30420185029511292682015-04-17T18:45:06.945-04:002015-04-17T18:45:06.945-04:00@Jenesis: We'll certainly be looking to build ...@Jenesis: We'll certainly be looking to build all of that depth in eventually, but design needs to start very broad and narrow down later. Otherwise we work ourselves into a corner and can't find a good fit for a major piece when we inevitably have to switch one out. If you think something is trending towards a point where we <b>CAN'T</b> add that depth, that's a problem. If it's just not there currently, it will be down the line.<br /><br />As for story/setting, we're still free to shift as our mechanical baggage demands, but Steampunk is serving as our baseline since it seems like the way to handle technology that's most in keeping with <b>Magic</b>'s aesthetics.<br /><br />As for board stalls with Industrial Revolution: that's certainly a valid concern. We might try a smaller number with "noncreature permanents" so that players are free to do combat as normal and are encouraged to run more artifacts than normal.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-8898834282671584862015-04-17T18:33:44.013-04:002015-04-17T18:33:44.013-04:00I like the cycling version a lot more than the bon...I like the cycling version a lot more than the bonus. I almost want to sac from play for when Grizzly Bears are sitting around in the late game...Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-52732363246689544612015-04-17T17:01:12.299-04:002015-04-17T17:01:12.299-04:00I don't want to play a set where I have to cou...I don't want to play a set where I have to count to ten little cubes on my cards. That can be fun every once in a while with some giant hydra, but it gets old real fast. Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-2373093073948986012015-04-17T16:01:18.076-04:002015-04-17T16:01:18.076-04:00"If a player controls a permanent with ten or..."If a player controls a permanent with ten or more counters on it, EFFECT."<br /><br />That's not bad, actually.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87181218514530786072015-04-17T15:40:10.297-04:002015-04-17T15:40:10.297-04:00An obvious way to track "spells cast" is...An obvious way to track "spells cast" is putting counters on the cards that care about tracking spells. But having those counters do nothing but track spells isn't great. It's a lot of fiddling, so there should be a better payoff. Here's Engineer + level up + DFC, for fun.<br /><br />Drone Mechanist 1W (UNC)<br />Creature - Human Artificier <br />Engineer (Whenever you cast an an artifact spell, you may pay 1. If you do, put a level counter on this.)<br />Level 0-2<br />2/1<br />Level 3-9<br />Flying<br />3/2<br />Level 10+<br />If there are ten of more level counters on Drone Mechanist, remove all level counters from Drone Mechanist and transform it.<br />///<br />Drone Captain (White color indicator)<br />Artifact Creature - Human<br />5/4<br />Flying<br />Other attacking creatures you control have flying.<br /><br />Problem with this, like previous level up cards, is that progress is split permanent to permanent, rather than everything moving to Phase II at the same time. Maybe the Level 10+ effect could be "If there are ten of more level counters on Drone Mechanist, remove all level counters from permanents you control with engineer and transform them." And maybe that would be only at Uncommon or Rare rarity, where the Commons only transform themselves. Hmmm.<br /><br />Another problem here is that there's no easy way to make instants or sorceries that care if ten spells have been cast unless they are parasitic (If a player controls a permanent with ten or more counters on it, EFFECT)(If a player controls a transformed permament, EFFECT) etc. Nich Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08686832423418814443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-62759109739237127712015-04-17T15:14:03.890-04:002015-04-17T15:14:03.890-04:00I like this basic idea a lot, although I prefer 4 ...I like this basic idea a lot, although I prefer 4 cards to 3. I want you to really get something expensive a high proportion of the time. I could even see it doing 6 cards and costing 5 or something so that no one accidentally Aspires something too early in the game.Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.com