tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post5913435768258141252..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Tesla Horizons: Self-Contained, Board Tracking, and Explicit Progress MechanicsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78354417484281329282015-02-25T00:42:49.400-05:002015-02-25T00:42:49.400-05:00Progress: it had the same problem as arcane spells...Progress: it had the same problem as arcane spells: it only worked with the same kind of spells.<br /><br />Gog work: i think it leads to a lot of triggers and not a lot happening.<br /><br />Power up: charge tokens or of all ages, so messing with them is viable with other sets, so can print sorcerys and instant refering to them. It has also some nice desing spaceLompe Luitenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00232072982510783952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-51445935883926890982015-02-21T17:49:15.725-05:002015-02-21T17:49:15.725-05:00Thematically this feels better if the bonus only c...Thematically this feels better if the bonus only counts other attackers, but yes, it is much more printable.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-38940783530578053762015-02-20T22:32:38.537-05:002015-02-20T22:32:38.537-05:00The */* effect on my Gnome tokens is simple to und...The */* effect on my Gnome tokens is simple to understand, but I am aware of the Red Flags it raises under NWO as far as board complexity. I don't think it plays anything like Pack Rat though. Pack Rat lets you cash in extra lands, unneeded removal spells, etc, for more rats. Gnomify would only let you trade in the specific cards we made with it (or specfic triggers) for extra Gnomes. <br /><br />I don't like the shrinking effect after combat damage killing other gnomes though. It's the worst thing about Slivers hardwired into the mechanic. I think a lot of concerns can be addressed and the fun of the mechanic can be retained with a keyword similar to Battle cry.<br /><br />Wind Up Assault 3W (Common)<br />Sorcery<br />Put two 1/1 colorless Gnome artifact creatures with coordinate onto the battlefield. (Whenever a creature with coordinate attacks, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each other Gnome you control.)<br /><br />Even though the reminder text references Gnomes specifically, the full rules text would be +1/+1 for each other creature you control that shares a creature type with it. I'm imagining the keyword would only be on one creature type this time, but is open for future iterations.Nich Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08686832423418814443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88852551448744926092015-02-20T22:29:02.961-05:002015-02-20T22:29:02.961-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Nich Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08686832423418814443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-87019300289392294812015-02-20T01:03:03.275-05:002015-02-20T01:03:03.275-05:00For what its worth, I tried that in my game as wel...For what its worth, I tried that in my game as well, almost verbatim, and it eventually got cut for just not being interesting enough. Obviously, my game isn't Magic, and I could imagine the mechanic being usable, but that is my experience anyway.Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-47765148700239244552015-02-19T20:48:58.786-05:002015-02-19T20:48:58.786-05:00As cool as Gnomify looks, I don't think it'...As cool as Gnomify looks, I don't think it's a viable set mechanic in it's current form. First off it has too much board complexity for NWO. Crusader of Odric had to be uncommon just for the difficulty of tracking its own size through combat and creatures dying. Adding more of them to the board just makes it that much harder to figure out what will survive when the dust settles.<br /><br />Even if that weren't an issue, I'm with Tommy on it's developability. Pack Rat was ludicrously oppressive at rare; in order to keep Gnomify from doing the same thing we either need to severely limit how often it shows up (which robs it of its fun) or attach astronomical costs to Gnomifying, which will make all the cards look terrible.<br /><br />Looking for a way to salvage the idea, I'd start with:<br /><br />Gnomify (To gnomify, put a colorless 1/1 Gnome artifact creature token onto the battlefield with "This creature gets +1/+0 for each other Gnome you control.")<br /><br />That way it's always clear what will die in combat unless first strike is involved and your creatures never become completely unanswerable.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-4216981496597525842015-02-19T18:42:01.688-05:002015-02-19T18:42:01.688-05:00It feels like Phyrexians, or Slivers... or the cre...It feels like Phyrexians, or Slivers... or the creations of a malicious antagonist we haven't made yet that is going to be so cool in Tesla.Nich Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08686832423418814443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-2391164130421115002015-02-19T15:41:25.578-05:002015-02-19T15:41:25.578-05:00It does feel like a form of progress, though I fee...It does feel like a form of progress, though I feel like it would be even better for phyrexians or slivers.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-8810207426699231362015-02-19T15:16:10.501-05:002015-02-19T15:16:10.501-05:00I played with this mechanic in a similar game, and...I played with this mechanic in a similar game, and it was pretty oppressive. it is a natural and neat idea, but I think it is undevelopable. Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-91974492201231335922015-02-19T14:07:56.059-05:002015-02-19T14:07:56.059-05:00I posted this in the last Telsa update, but it was...I posted this in the last Telsa update, but it was late enough that I think people missed it. <br /><br />Gnomify (To gnomify, put a colorless Gnome artifact creature token onto the battlefield with "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Gnomes you control.")<br /><br />This falls under board tracking because the tokens count each other, even if the spells and permanents that create them don't. There are a lot of different ways the key action could work. <br /><br />Mobile Gnome Home 4 (Uncommon)<br />Artifact Creature - Gnome */*<br />NAME's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Gnomes you control.<br />Whenever NAME attacks, gnomify. (Reminder text.)<br /><br />Cobblesmash 2G (Commmon)<br />Instant<br />Destroy target artifact. Gnomify. (Reminder text.)<br /><br />Repair Crew Station 3W (Rare)<br />Enchantment<br />XXW: Gnomify X times. (Reminder text.)Nich Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08686832423418814443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-90951704493109215632015-02-19T09:30:53.265-05:002015-02-19T09:30:53.265-05:00Shining Shoal can work, so I think that could work...Shining Shoal can work, so I think that could work too. "As an additional cost to cast a Fossil Fuel spell, you may exile a card from your graveyard with CMC X. If you do, that spell costs {X} less to cast." Or some such.<br /><br />Feels like a very interesting way of gaining-then-consuming resources. I'm <i>not</i> sure it particularly feels like progress though.AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-7066941941335961282015-02-18T18:47:15.192-05:002015-02-18T18:47:15.192-05:00The multiple options setup looks like it would be ...The multiple options setup looks like it would be fun, especially with a later release adding option to your old progress cards. Unfortunately we can't list all the options on a card and I think telling players they can make tokens they might not understand because they haven't opened is a recipe for disaster. Therefore the idea is probably best saved for a supplemental product where we can ensure they get all the tokens.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-9606708433012941292015-02-18T17:42:35.983-05:002015-02-18T17:42:35.983-05:00Progress Counter
At the end of your turn, gain lif...Progress Counter<br />At the end of your turn, gain life until it equals your progress.<br /><br />Progress Counter<br />You may look at the top X cards of your library at any time, where X is your progress.<br /><br />Progress Counter<br />Spells that target you, a permanent you control, or a card in your hand, library or graveyard cost {1} more to cast.<br /><br />Hmm. Was just brainstorming different possibilities for The Progress Rule, but going back to an old scrap idea, what if there a bunch of different progress tokens and you could choose any in your pool whenever you gain one?<br /><br />Chemical Progress<br />Progress Token<br />Whenever you cast a blue spell, artifacts cost you {1} less to cast until EOT.<br /><br />Biological Progress<br />Progress Token<br />Whenever a creature ETB under you control, target creature gets +1/+1 until EOT.<br /><br />etcJay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-48441129640384560762015-02-18T17:12:28.540-05:002015-02-18T17:12:28.540-05:00I'm not disagreeing, just noting pitfalls to b...I'm not disagreeing, just noting pitfalls to be mindful of. It's unclear exactly how much of this mechanic we'd want at common, so it's conceivable that we can get away without any messiness and just avoid affecting other permanents altogether.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-26809855587939475752015-02-18T16:46:45.061-05:002015-02-18T16:46:45.061-05:00I agree board complexity is a serious issue here. ...I agree board complexity is a serious issue here. I don't agree that the trade of board complexity for comprehension complexity that comes from wrapping an activated ability behind a trigger is worth it. <br /><br />I do think that if you use my template it is wise to avoid affecting the board too often, I tried to keep my sample super clean in that regard. Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-79196242420241426092015-02-18T16:30:36.397-05:002015-02-18T16:30:36.397-05:00Very interesting space. I'm thinking the exili...Very interesting space. I'm thinking the exiling should come before resolution so players know what's happening while they respond, and that also might open us up to effects with scaling numbers of targets (though that would involve a bit of rules wonkiness behind the scenes since costs are paid after targets are selected).Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-36248081410862398502015-02-18T16:27:26.806-05:002015-02-18T16:27:26.806-05:00This is Johnnytastic enough that I'd probably ...This is Johnnytastic enough that I'd probably start it at uncommon, but of course it depends on the rest of the set.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19769105110628788932015-02-18T16:26:01.058-05:002015-02-18T16:26:01.058-05:00I feel that things which go through more than two ...I feel that things which go through more than two states feel a lot more like they're progressing than ones with an on/off switch, but if we do decide to go that route, Presence and Metalcraft are certainly worth looking at.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-63732492578312688382015-02-18T16:23:08.870-05:002015-02-18T16:23:08.870-05:00Policy seems to be "worry about Standard and ...Policy seems to be "worry about Standard and Limited, then ban anything that's problematic in older formats." Otherwise Treasure Cruise never would have seen the light of day. I think we could pretty easily ensure that standard didn't have any looting below three-ish mana and avoid breaking anything.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-5266857065802050372015-02-18T16:20:56.400-05:002015-02-18T16:20:56.400-05:00I really dislike the 10 counters win setup. Poison...I really dislike the 10 counters win setup. Poison was toeing the line on interactivity with Proliferate and simple ways of granting Progress are going to be just as uninteractive unless we tie it to combat, in which case it's basically Poison redux.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-21096651376302254742015-02-18T16:18:32.960-05:002015-02-18T16:18:32.960-05:00Yeah, definitely not set ready. The activations re...Yeah, definitely not set ready. The activations read more cleanly, but don't allow us to use effects that impact the board because of board complexity. We could try to do without those, but otherwise we need a trigger or a sorcery-speed restriction in the activation.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-67276862204589448802015-02-18T15:43:47.452-05:002015-02-18T15:43:47.452-05:00More complex, but more reliable:
Coal Energy Drin...More complex, but more reliable:<br /><br />Coal Energy Drink {X}{G}<br />Sorcery (unc)<br />Fossil Fuel (You may exile a card from your graveyard. If you do, X is its CMC.)<br />Target creature gets +X/+X until EOT.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-29134603999395322092015-02-18T15:41:32.544-05:002015-02-18T15:41:32.544-05:00Coal Energy Drink {1}{G}
Sorcery (cmn)
Fossil Fuel...Coal Energy Drink {1}{G}<br />Sorcery (cmn)<br />Fossil Fuel <i>(Exile a card from your graveyard. X is its CMC.)</i><br />Target creature gets +X/+X until EOT.<br /><br />Basically, a version of "equal to your progress" that consumes resources but doesn't work for static effects as a result.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-65227408821349618152015-02-18T15:36:55.311-05:002015-02-18T15:36:55.311-05:00Good catch that a single loot or Careful Study cou...Good catch that a single loot or Careful Study could shortcut this. Making such effects inefficient could help in Limited, but we should keep an eye toward Modern and older formats that might be able to abuse it as a matter of course.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-13546185538557347312015-02-18T15:24:12.129-05:002015-02-18T15:24:12.129-05:00Spare Parts
U
Sorcery - Common
Move all charge cou...Spare Parts<br />U<br />Sorcery - Common<br />Move all charge counters on artifacts you control onto target artifact.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15941977219304581236noreply@blogger.com