tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post855058919731214975..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: M13 A New Black PlaneswalkerUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-73410984240906692902012-04-20T13:21:08.974-04:002012-04-20T13:21:08.974-04:00I quit playing at the end of Urza block, and only ...I quit playing at the end of Urza block, and only came back with Zendikar. Consequently, planeswalkers were completely new to me. Although I enjoy them on their power level, they just don't grab me the way they seem to attract much of the community. <br /><br />That said, I have to give a ringing endorsement to Wyeth 1.0 as shown in the article above, which hit the Johnny switch so hard I'd consider breaking down and preordering them if it was real, then sorting through madness and flashback cards to break him in half. Superb, I look forward to the day when these sort of mechanical interactions start making their way onto the *real* MtG planeswalkers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-2919620342617793322012-02-02T07:53:33.106-05:002012-02-02T07:53:33.106-05:00It's a shame we havn't seen the other plan...It's a shame we havn't seen the other planeswalkers from the M12 Duels of the Planeswalkers in card form. I would like to see a merfoke planeswalker *hint* *hint*<br /><br />Of course... we can't discredit the fact that we NEED simple mono-colored planeswalkers in our core sets for newbies to get introduced to. If we are seeking a new black planeswalker, why not something that's really mean and brutal like some sort of uber black knight?<br /><br />Here's a idea:<br /><br />Balastor, aspect of hate - 2BB<br /><br />4 loyalty<br /><br />+1 - Target Creature gets -2/-2. If that creature dies during this turn, put another loyalty counter on this card.<br />-2 - Target Creature gets +5/-1 until end of turn.<br />-12 - Destory all creatures target player controls. They can not regenerate.<br /><br />Also... wouldn't that pirate have some red in him? Pirates are rather chaotic people with little morals or quims. The Card 'Browbeat" comes to mind with a theme of pirates :pSuperscopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06890917677679517958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-41705235467496610792011-12-20T18:07:50.090-05:002011-12-20T18:07:50.090-05:00Havelock, I was interpreting it as an expression s...Havelock, I was interpreting it as an expression similar to "empty your wallets". The pirate can't touch what's in the library, as the library is something like a locked chest. So he forces you to open the chest (draw two), then finds a way to take what you've drawn.<br /><br />And Jay, there's actually a reason that I had it access both hand and graveyard, and that's so that the opponent can't find a way to avoid being taken advantage of, whether by preemptively casting dangerous spells (if it accesses the hand) or by simply holding onto those spells (if it accesses the graveyard). While that level of interaction may seem interesting, especially since PWs don't often have a level of interaction like that, it ultimately seems less fun to me than just letting Wyeth get his way.metaghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18301191638894756414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-77951954895815912792011-12-20T12:47:15.469-05:002011-12-20T12:47:15.469-05:00I like the gameplay of "Each player loses 2 l...I like the gameplay of "Each player loses 2 life and draws two cards." But I don't see what it has to do with piracy.HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-48210585793718672962011-12-20T11:51:31.431-05:002011-12-20T11:51:31.431-05:00+2: Each player loses 2 life and draws two cards.
...+2: Each player loses 2 life and draws two cards.<br />-2: Creatures you control gain /deathtouch/ and "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, he or she discards a card" until EOT.<br />-6: Until end of turn, you may play cards from your opponents' /graveyards/ and spend black mana as though it were mana of any color.<br /><br />OR<br /><br />+2: Each player loses 2 life and draws two cards.<br />-3: Creatures you control gain /intimidate/ until EOT. At EOT, for each player dealt combat damage this turn, gain control of an artifact or land he or she controls.<br />-5: Your opponents reveal their hands. Until end of turn, you may play cards from your opponents' /hands/.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-32700715816997840192011-12-20T11:42:14.205-05:002011-12-20T11:42:14.205-05:00I agree the swamp thing made no sense.
I do wish ...I agree the swamp thing made no sense.<br /><br />I do wish the last ability was only one of opponent's hands or graveyards, so there's a more clear plan/goal/requirement. If it's hand, the first ability is good and the second is bad. If it's graveyard, the first ability is still okay thanks to the second ability.<br /><br />While intimidate makes sense, I prefer the doomed-if-you-do/doomed-if-you-don't aspect of the deathtouch + specter combination.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-10067821186601139732011-12-20T11:15:22.692-05:002011-12-20T11:15:22.692-05:00Jay, I don't think you'd need to force any...Jay, I don't think you'd need to force anything and put a Swamp-search on Wyeth just because of the black mana clause. The idea is that it suggests a monocolor-ideal, much like Koth.<br /><br />That said:<br /><br />3 Loyalty<br />+2: Each player loses 2 life and draws two cards.<br />-2: Creatures you control gain intimidate and "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, he or she discards a card" until EOT.<br />-6: Your opponents reveal their hands. Until end of turn, you may spend black mana as though it were any color and play cards from your opponents' hands and graveyards.<br /><br />I think only a Pirate-PW would afford a designer the opportunity to concoct such an amusing seesaw of "draw some cards, now discard them" and have it make sense.metaghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18301191638894756414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-9561117391094618832011-12-20T11:11:50.110-05:002011-12-20T11:11:50.110-05:00Davey Jones, Courier of the Dead 2BB
Planeswalker-...Davey Jones, Courier of the Dead 2BB<br />Planeswalker-Davey<br />3<br />+1: Return a creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield under your control with haste. Exile it at EOT or if it would die.<br />0: Target player sacrifices a creature. You lose life equal to its toughness.<br />-4: Creatures you control get +1/+0 and gain intimidate until EOT. Whenever a creature you control deals damage to a player this turn, he or she discards a card.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-43045517674228449562011-12-20T10:38:36.642-05:002011-12-20T10:38:36.642-05:00Wyeth, Blackboot 2BB
Planeswalker-Wyeth
4
+1: Crea...Wyeth, Blackboot 2BB<br />Planeswalker-Wyeth<br />4<br />+1: Creatures you control gain deathtouch and "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, he or she discards a card" until EOT.<br />-1: Reveal the top card of your library. Creatures opponents control get -X/-X until EOT where X is that card's CMC.<br />-6: Draw a card for each creature card in target opponent's graveyard. He or she loses that much life.<br /><br />I like metaghost's ultimate, but it has to feel like what the previous abilities were leading up to. Perhaps:<br /><br />Wyeth, Blackboot 3BB<br />Planeswalker-Wyeth<br />3<br />+2: Each player loses 2 life and draws two cards.<br />-X: Search your library for up to X Swamp cards and put them OTB tapped. Shuffle your library.<br />-5: Your opponents reveal their hands. Until end of turn, you may spend black mana as though it were any color and play cards from your opponents' hands and graveyards.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81283974951029741232011-12-20T00:31:34.600-05:002011-12-20T00:31:34.600-05:00Jay's use of the word "plunder" and ...Jay's use of the word "plunder" and my dissatisfaction with most of the ultimates thought up so far got me thinking about more unique or flashy concepts for an ultimate. Word association leads to the obvious Memory Plunder, but general pirate terminology and themes lead me to things like Ill-Gotten Gains and excruciatingly broken Yawgmoth's Will.<br /><br />-6: Your opponents reveal their hands. Until end of turn, you may spend black mana as though it were any color and play cards from your opponents' hands and graveyards.<br /><br />Fusing Celestial Dawn, Sen Triplets, and Yawgmoth's Will brought me to an exciting, albeit wordy, representation of a Pirate who truly knows how to plunder. Some elements of an ultimate tend to depend on the other functions to provide that gratifying sense of aelf-functioning synergy, but something of this nature is nice in that it doesn't force you to dedicate elements of the design to a discard or creature-kill function, while still working with either if that's the direction you choose.metaghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18301191638894756414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-76408484950026070062011-12-19T22:58:57.675-05:002011-12-19T22:58:57.675-05:00I think that's the most solid package so far, ...I think that's the most solid package so far, Jay, though I'm not totally sold on the ultimate and part of me would like to see some representation of "surprise attack!" in the first ability.<br /><br />Also, I'd try to find a way to make sure the plus-ability is untargeted.metaghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18301191638894756414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88478558536845218162011-12-19T18:50:48.730-05:002011-12-19T18:50:48.730-05:00Let me try an execution that feels like a pirate a...Let me try an execution that feels like a pirate attack. Broadside, board and plunder!<br />Wyeth, Blackboot 2BB<br />Planeswalker-Wyeth<br />4<br />+1: Creatures target player controls get -1/-1 until EOT.<br />-1: Creatures you control gain deathtouch and "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, he or she discards a card" until EOT.<br />-5: Draw a card for each creature card in target opponent's graveyard.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-37684517872339566302011-12-17T10:43:09.633-05:002011-12-17T10:43:09.633-05:00Pasteur pointed out my version of Wyeth is much le...Pasteur pointed out my version of Wyeth is much less attractive in a non-Pirate deck, since you need to nerf your own creatures at least once with the first ability before you get to the ultimate. I was also concerned that the ultimate wasn't impressive enough, compared to other Planeswalkers. So here are my thoughts. <br /><br />You can always play the +1 ability after combat, just to get the loyalty counter. But that is hardly a thing we want people to have to do. We want them to feel like these 'walkers are all upside. So I suggest the simple tweak of making the -1/-0 effect hit only opponents's creatures and the +1/+0 ability only boost your Pirates. True, in a pirate free deck, you still don't get the +1/+0 ability until after the emblem comes down, but I just like the idea that once he makes a crew, they fight better with him on the board acting as captain.<br /><br />Next, I like Wyeth making an emblem. But the tricky thing is that I don't want to give a player any reason to try and get more than one emblem, so static effects are the way to go. Luckily the pirate flavor allows for an easy fix of the ultimate that seems piraty and ratchets up the "I win" feeling we're shooting for: First strike! First strike has bled a lot into black recently for flavor, (see Glissa the Traitor and Abattoir Ghoul). I feel good about using it here. Coupled with deathtouch, it transforms the +1 and -2 abilites in an exciting way. So altogether, here's my second pass at Wyeth:<br /><br />Wyeth Soulcursed<br />3BB<br />Planeswalker – Wyeth<br />5<br />+1: Creatures opponents control get -1/-0 until end of turn. Pirate creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.<br />-2: Put a creature card in target opponent’s graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.<br />-6: You get an emblem with “Creatures you control have first strike, deathtouch and are Pirates in addition to their other types.”Nich Graysonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19539951985152397642011-12-16T13:56:02.833-05:002011-12-16T13:56:02.833-05:00I like the latest Wyeth but I don't think trip...I like the latest Wyeth but I don't think triple-6 fits the flavour of a pirate, who can actually be a hero, just a criminal one, and not necessarily evil or demonic in any way, with the triple-6 can't help but evoke.<br /><br />How about this pirate ultimate instead:<br /><br />-5: You may cast any number of cards from target player's graveyard without paying their mana costs. <br /><br />The flavour, in case it isn't obvious, is the pirate raiding an opponent's (or their own) buried treasure (buried in the graveyard).Trevor Murdockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319974214320307907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-90597526337828761532011-12-15T21:16:30.767-05:002011-12-15T21:16:30.767-05:00Okay, here's a stab at Daniel's plan:
Wye...Okay, here's a stab at Daniel's plan:<br /><br />Wyeth Blackboot<br />3BB<br />Planeswalker - Wyeth<br />3<br />+1: Target player discards a card, and you gain 1 life.<br />-2: Creatures you control gain +2/+0 and intimidate until end of turn.<br />-6: Target player loses 6 life, and you draw 6 cards.HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-24597671272862770652011-12-15T18:24:24.441-05:002011-12-15T18:24:24.441-05:00I'm going to start a new post for Grim Banishi...I'm going to start a new post for Grim Banishing, since it's off topic here.<br /><br />I'd like to see an actual NEW new walker, and I really like the concept for Wyeth. Anti-hero/Han Solo style scoundrels don't show up all that often in Magic. I'd rather stay away from recycling an existing character, and every block gets demons and undead, so the idea of a Demon/Necromancer walker isn't really appealing. (although Raguel is probably the best single card so far, so props to HV).<br /><br />With that in mind, I'd like to see Wyeth stay away from life drain/reanimate effects, and get stuff like card manipulation, killing creatures, providing creature pumps. I feel like those fit more with what pirates are good at: doing cheaty things with cards, fighting duels, and leading comrades. So these are some abilities along those lines that I like...<br /><br />Possible + abilities:<br />- Blackmail (more fun than repeated Cabal Therapy, and it's a great flavor connection)<br />- Raguel's + effect from above <br />- A small Breach-style effect (creatures you control get +1/+0 and intimidate)<br /><br />Possible - abilities:<br />- Doom Blade<br />- Mind Rot<br />- Brain Pry (I feel like this is what you were trying for in your comment Jay)<br />- Moderate color hate (like a Slay-effect)<br />- A bigger Breach effect/creature pump<br /><br />Possible ultimates:<br />- Head Games<br />- Enslave<br />- Persecute (major discard/color hate) <br />- A scaled-up Moonlight Bargain.<br />- A board wipe, like Plague Wind or Decree of PainDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417959233780755818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-43012803710884843552011-12-15T16:54:10.560-05:002011-12-15T16:54:10.560-05:00I'm against Grim Banishing too. Planeswalkers ...I'm against Grim Banishing too. Planeswalkers shouldn't run rampant in Standard, but they should feel like powerful allies that you call to aid you, being equated to creatures doesn't do that.<br /><br />As for the walker itself, I could definitely see going for either Liliana or a fresh face, so I'll try to come up with something for each:<br /><br />Liliana, Debtor of Demons 3BB<br />Planeswalker-Liliana<br />5<br />+2: Each opponent loses 1 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.<br />-X: Put X 0/1 black Thrull creature tokens onto the battlefield.<br />-8: Exchange your life total with Liliana’s loyalty. You can’t lose the game as long as you control Liliana.<br /><br />The middle ability isn't a perfect fit here, but I like a -X here. Any ideas other than Thrulls and Zombify? (Starting loyalty and ultimate cost can be adjusted to balance a stronger or weaker -X)<br /><br />Wyeth Blackboot 3B<br />Planeswalker-Wyeth<br />3<br />+1: Each player discards a card. Whenever and artifact card is discarded this way, exile it.<br />0: Sacrifice a creature. If you do, exile that creature card and draw two cards.<br />-3: Put all cards exiled by Wyeth onto the battlefield under your control.<br /><br />This reads pretty clunky to me, but my goal was for him to steal artifacts, take on stow-aways, and then you find his stash.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-21057576770946536792011-12-14T17:27:58.483-05:002011-12-14T17:27:58.483-05:00While I think using Ob Nixilis as a character is a...While I think using Ob Nixilis as a character is a decent idea, and black does often have a "Swamps matter" setup, I would be wary of hitting the note of Black-Koth. (And also, for Ob in particular, before he became tied to Zendikar, was he very land-y?)<br /><br />Mutilate as a secondary ability does seem very strong. I don't know what sort of + he could have to balance – the ability to directly deal with multiple creatures seems like something to be very careful about on PWs.<br /><br /><br />I don't think it's particularly a bad thing to introduce new planeswalker characters in the core set product. They'll have spells to help round out their character, and, I mean, look at Lorwyn.<br /><br />I abhor Grim Banishing.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-78184014876080928742011-12-14T15:11:07.519-05:002011-12-14T15:11:07.519-05:00"HavelockV said...
I think a planeswalker who..."HavelockV said...<br />I think a planeswalker who sometimes helps your opponents is much weirder than Gideon, and a bad way to introduce planeswalkers to new players."<br /><br />Jace Beleran? <br /><br />I mean:<br /><br />"+2: Each player draws a card and loses 1 life."<br /><br />Is pretty similar in function and way easier in execution. <br /><br />I'm not a fan of Grim Banishing, if only because it makes Planeswalkers feel less like players and more like creatures. <br /><br />I still don't think that introducing a new character in a core set is the best idea, the classic's can be revisited early and often. <br /><br />It also looks like we could be getting a new Ajani and Liliana in M13, fwiw:<br />http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7662327&postcount=17 <br /><br />In that spirit: <br /><br />Liliana 3.0 2BB<br />Planeswalker-Liliana<br />+1: Name a nonland card. Target player reveals his or her hand and discards all cards with that name.<br />-2: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. You lose life equal to that creatures converted mana cost.<br />-7: Search target opponent's library for any number of non-creature cards and exile them. That player shuffles their library. <br />[4]<br /><br />I mean, surely there's enough design space with just "normal" walkers to come up with one without bending the rules horribly.<br /><br />FWIW, because no one has discussed Ob Nixilis: Is <br /><br />-2: All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn for each Swamp you control.<br /><br />a bad idea? Is that guy just way too focused on Swamps?Wobbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11494097707732649864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-16454996741319695902011-12-14T10:16:46.346-05:002011-12-14T10:16:46.346-05:00We're still in the Design phase, so don't ...We're still in the Design phase, so don't worry about cards/effects that are broken if they wouldn't be broken with lower numbers or higher cost. If we can print Pasteur's version of Wyeth at 8BB or with 1 loyalty, those are trivial changes to make. The more important question is whether all the abilities are fun, exciting and tie together into a cohesive whole.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-12066384458370666942011-12-14T01:51:20.428-05:002011-12-14T01:51:20.428-05:00Cool cool cool. I assumed that in most cases where...Cool cool cool. I assumed that in most cases where the ultimate would be devastating, the opponent would have enough board presence to just kill Wyeth by attacking, and that Sadistic Sacrament never is quite as effective as it is tempting.<br /><br />It's funny, I've never actually played with Larceny itself. Thanks for the feedback, Alex.<br />If the starting loyalty was 3 and the ultimate 7, a la Ajani Vengeant, would that solve things? Planeswalkers are such bizarre confluences of numbers.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-19263817940998361752011-12-14T01:22:26.792-05:002011-12-14T01:22:26.792-05:00Well, its +1 is a turbo-charged version of Larceny...Well, its +1 is a turbo-charged version of Larceny. And the -2 is a repeatable Jester's Cap. And it takes only a single turn to build up to the ultimate, which more often than not just says "I win" against aggro. All that for just four mana. Yeah, it's a bit too good.Alex Spaldinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03747145070824848773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-28004830928973101902011-12-13T22:17:23.915-05:002011-12-13T22:17:23.915-05:00@Anonymous
Enlighten me, please? From what I can ...@Anonymous<br /><br />Enlighten me, please? From what I can see, my Wyeth (let's call it Wyeth'' for clarity) is a midrange ingenue; attractive, but usually not actually the best card for the job.<br /> <br /><br />(Otherwise, I agree with Havelock.)Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-56668417309972021782011-12-13T21:40:20.597-05:002011-12-13T21:40:20.597-05:00http://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2011/12/m13-new...http://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2011/12/m13-new-black-planeswalker.html?showComment=1323790396866#c1762161075063072672<br /><br />No, just no. Do you have any idea how retardedly powerful that would be? If that card was ever printed, wizards would have another thing coming. Cards need to be BALANCED.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-23081467489441635502011-12-13T21:34:32.047-05:002011-12-13T21:34:32.047-05:00I think a planeswalker who sometimes helps your op...I think a planeswalker who sometimes helps your opponents is much weirder than Gideon, and a bad way to introduce planeswalkers to new players.HavelockVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698268009797139251noreply@blogger.com