tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post9064075294491814071..comments2024-03-11T02:32:15.295-04:00Comments on Goblin Artisans: Tesla—Getting the Gears TurningUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-7894388375324345102014-05-12T11:31:52.463-04:002014-05-12T11:31:52.463-04:00I think limiting the effect to make it only attach...I think limiting the effect to make it only attach to other artifact creatures fits the flavor and will help development as well. when the mecha falls off, it makes sense that it should revert back to its original shape, and also will prevent 2-1s. I think this cleanly demonstrates a creature that transforms and attaches to another creature and then transforms back into a creature. This mechanic would have a play style similar to bestow, with the difference being that it targets artifact creatures only, but bestow happens from play instead of from the hand. (and this mechanic would create slightly more repetitive gameplay than bestow does.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00635539352914988972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-36599547721460979782014-05-12T11:28:20.630-04:002014-05-12T11:28:20.630-04:00Great feedback guys thanks! How about something a...Great feedback guys thanks! How about something along the lines of:<br /><br />Bear Mecha 2G<br />Artifact Creature - Bear Golem (Common)<br />Mecha 5 (Transform CARDNAME and attach it to target artifact creature.)<br />2/2<br />------------------<br />Bear Arms<br />Artifact - Equipment<br />Equipped creature gets +2/+2<br />If equipped creature would leave play, unattach CARDNAME and transform it<br /><br />Dragon Mecha 5RR<br />Artifact Creature - Dragon Golem (Mythic)<br />Flying. Whenever CARDNAME attacks, it deals damage equal to its power to target creature. <br />Mecha 8 (Transform CARDNAME and attach it to target artifact creature. Play this ability any time you could play a sorcery.)<br />5/5<br />------------------<br />Dragon Armor<br />Artifact - Equipment<br />Equipped creature gets +5/+5 and has flying and "Whenever CARDNAME attacks, it deals damage equal to its power to target creature." <br />If equipped creature would leave play, unattach CARDNAME and transform it.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00635539352914988972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-65787508729715109212014-05-11T21:31:07.095-04:002014-05-11T21:31:07.095-04:00You give up the visceral thrill of the transform-a...You give up the visceral thrill of the transform-and-combine action and the combined art, which is a big sacrifice; but you are at least still stacking two creatures together and combining them. That could well have a lot of fun to it. But I fear the in-game fiddliness of having combined asymmetrical P/Ts could make this play quite fiddlily.<br /><br />The rules team would need to check whether Mycosynth Lattice causes any interactions to Just Break. AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-24989282156688135582014-05-11T21:26:53.543-04:002014-05-11T21:26:53.543-04:00For what it's worth, I'm sufficiently voca...For what it's worth, I'm sufficiently vocal a detractor of DFCs that <a href="http://community.wizards.com/comment/39771971#comment-39771971" rel="nofollow">I compiled a list of 15+ problems with DFCs</a> and think Magic would have been better if they'd never happened. But since they did happen, we have the technology available, and we might as well make use of it in a circumstance where it adds to the fun.<br /><br />The art of different heads/bodies connecting together will be very hard to do as a group of amateurs who can't commission artists to do the work specifically for us. But I think the idea is to pretend that we are at Wizards, at which point I have every confidence that Wizards' stable of artists would be able to achieve fantastic things. You just make the style guide include precise specifications for where the lines at the join need to go.AlexChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674122775216494431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-37245303493512133812014-05-11T18:05:31.809-04:002014-05-11T18:05:31.809-04:00This is certainly a viable way to do Mecha without...This is certainly a viable way to do Mecha without DFCs. I'm not sure whether or not it's worth giving up the visceral thrill of the combined art to deal with the logistical issues, and not being parasitic is a major point in the version's favor.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-10381881837968271962014-05-11T18:01:35.930-04:002014-05-11T18:01:35.930-04:00This is certainly a good in between option if we d...This is certainly a good in between option if we determine that actually combining cards has too many issues.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-41270080578361502752014-05-10T12:23:19.215-04:002014-05-10T12:23:19.215-04:00On the Giant Growth front, most players are unsure...On the Giant Growth front, most players are unsure what happens if you first Giant Growth a Nessian Courser, then equip it with Wayfaring Walker. Is it a 6/4 or a 9/7?<br /><br />On the repetitive play issue, I agree it's thematic, but I have a hard time imagining it'll be fun. The games are going to feel way too variable to most players if it looks like they just lost because their opponent drew a creature first. That said, we may be able to diminish that issue with more designs like Warpath Walker that you don't necessarily stick on every creature.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-42318889911557825272014-05-10T12:16:21.537-04:002014-05-10T12:16:21.537-04:00True enough.True enough.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-45232800389180538212014-05-10T09:47:55.265-04:002014-05-10T09:47:55.265-04:00Yes, equipment without equip costs would be fine.
...Yes, equipment without equip costs would be fine.<br /><br />Working on Pilots may be a little extreme; I could see replacing "Pilot" with "non-Chassis" or "non-Chassis artifact" depending on Limited needs. The main thing I wanted to avoid was creating "Yo Dawg" situations.lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-43537162627963607172014-05-09T20:03:27.303-04:002014-05-09T20:03:27.303-04:00I like this latest implementation a lot, though I ...I like this latest implementation a lot, though I do wonder why Feline Ears isn't just an equipment. I think having mechas be equipments without equip costs would be new and innovative enough to clearly be a new mechanic.<br /><br />The only other thing I dislike is that Mecha only works on Pilots. That's super super parasitic for little gain when it could be any creature I think.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393054869276886509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-79774849590656321162014-05-09T17:51:19.956-04:002014-05-09T17:51:19.956-04:00Point taken, Jules. I was assuming that only Heads...Point taken, Jules. I was assuming that only Heads would have the mecha ability (as I proposed below) and so we could print reminder text on the transformed card. But after thinking it over, in that case it's not clear that the bestow-like templating actually gets you anything, so this probably isn't a good way to go.lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-49541037649887479292014-05-09T17:46:09.966-04:002014-05-09T17:46:09.966-04:00Oh, I see. Yes, that could get rather frustrating,...Oh, I see. Yes, that could get rather frustrating, though it's not nearly as bad when restricted to artifacts.lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-6299727749580417692014-05-09T17:36:49.698-04:002014-05-09T17:36:49.698-04:00Hmm. I would assume, as a player, that a Master o...Hmm. I would assume, as a player, that a Master of Etherium joined to a Body would have *+1/*+5 power and toughness. The confusing thing there would be the Body being a 2/6 before it joined and a 1/5 after, but I think the "other" covers that. I'm sure there are some CDAs that are harder to track, though hopefully they would still be in rare+ territory.<br /><br />On summoning sickness, I don't know, but card disadvantage is where I would be most worried. Overall, I like this; it makes sense to me.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-86142461653019263702014-05-09T17:27:09.698-04:002014-05-09T17:27:09.698-04:00I honestly think we can do this at NWO easier than...I honestly think we can do this at NWO easier than some of the other variations - there's only one P/T to track (I hate having players have to remember what P/T is on the backside of a card), everything happens at sorcery speed, and there are fewer new terms to have to learn to use.<br /><br />We can reduce Giant Growth effects at common, but even then, Giant Growthing an equipped creature isn't <i>that</i> weird, is it? Is there a layer-based interaction that I'm unfamiliar with here?<br /><br />I hadn't considered the totem armor option at all. That really can cover the gap in making the mechs feel like creatures - when they're inhabited, they can be killed with normal removal. It's a different flavor, but it's equally workable. The one thing I would want to test is whether that would make players more reluctant to equip their creature (if their average creature is less worth saving than their average equipment).<br /><br />As for #2, repetitive gameplay can be an issue, but I think this works in the Mechs' favor. The current five are designed to all be able to break through a stall against each other. If you draw an Elvish Visionary, and I draw a Centaur Courser, you're rewarded for having a creature that has better synergy with Mechs (making players value smaller creatures before the game even begins, which is always good); I'm rewarded if either of us have artifact removal (as my creature can still hold its own if that's the case); and if it becomes a battle of "find a pilot, any pilot, for your Mech, which is the center of the game from here on out", then that's pretty much exactly the story I think the set could sell.Pasteurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058331124653341978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-59855395729606127542014-05-09T17:23:38.708-04:002014-05-09T17:23:38.708-04:00If +1/+1 counters do prove intuitive, then Burst o...If +1/+1 counters do prove intuitive, then Burst of Strength and Wings of Velis Vel can be this block's giant growths.Jay Treathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09428861685923241850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-68405200138163439382014-05-09T16:54:19.114-04:002014-05-09T16:54:19.114-04:00OK, Tommy just posted with more or less the same p...OK, Tommy just posted with more or less the same point. For comparison, here's how I might suggest templating Mechanical Cat:<br /><br />Mechanical Cat W<br />Artifact Creature- Cat Chassis (Common)<br />1/2<br />Mecha 4 (4: Transform ~ and attach it to target Pilot creature you control. Mecha only as a sorcery.)<br />---------------------------------------------------------------<br />Feline Ears<br />Artifact- Chassis<br />CARDNAME's pilot gets +1/+2.<br />When CARDNAME's pilot leaves the battlefield, transform CARDNAME.<br /><br /><br />Note how this is now getting pretty close to the traditional, combine-style implementation. (What if the Equipment bonus was a constant-- say +2/+2-- that wasn't tied to the Body stats, plus granting any abilities in the Body text box?)lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-88747989653154728532014-05-09T16:52:28.220-04:002014-05-09T16:52:28.220-04:00Agreed on weaving in the attaching part, good call...Agreed on weaving in the attaching part, good call.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-29742426036864425832014-05-09T16:51:02.887-04:002014-05-09T16:51:02.887-04:00Unfortunately CDAs are unavoidable given that Mast...Unfortunately CDAs are unavoidable given that Master of Etherium exists, but so long as there are none in Standard it should be okay if there's no intuitive rules solution. This version solves issues with collation and checklist cards, but doesn't answer questions about summoning sickness. I'm not sure whether or not that's worth losing some of the visceral thrill for that, anyone else have opinions on the matter?Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-89935157678000392042014-05-09T16:46:52.129-04:002014-05-09T16:46:52.129-04:00Oh sorry, I didn't deliberately remove the &qu...Oh sorry, I didn't deliberately remove the "Use this ability only as a sorcery" text. I like that part, and want to keep it.<br /><br />This does make me want to keep mostly away from instant speed removal, which would really hose this mechanic. Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-81835126313662455002014-05-09T16:45:27.918-04:002014-05-09T16:45:27.918-04:00I like what's going on here a lot. One change ...I like what's going on here a lot. One change that I would make is to remove the equip ability on the back side and add language to the mecha ability on the front side that says "attach to target creature". That reduces wordiness and prevents some un-flavorful, feel-bad uses of the mechanic ("Transform my guys, Wrath, Transform them back").lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-3046069239576905512014-05-09T16:44:44.363-04:002014-05-09T16:44:44.363-04:00I can't help but to feel like paying 2 isn'...I can't help but to feel like paying 2 isn't the right condition for flipping it. I think I would like for the flip ability to automatically equip it (and have a cost equal to the equip cost on the back). I also think your equip costs are (for the most part) too low. <br /><br />Example:<br /><br />Mechanical Cat W<br />Artifact Creature -- Cat (Common)<br /><br />Mechanize 4 (Transform ~ and attach it to target creature you control)<br /><br />1/2<br /><br />----------------------<br /><br />Feline Ears<br />Artifact -- Equipment<br /><br />Equipped creature gets +1/+2.<br /><br />Equip 4<br />Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-82535838068570057312014-05-09T16:42:32.908-04:002014-05-09T16:42:32.908-04:00I meant the revealed card. Once you've reveale...I meant the revealed card. Once you've revealed a Sip of Hemlock or Giant Growth, your opponent has to track it like an on board trick until you play it. Samite Healer was the wrong example, this is more like Mogg Fanatic.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-47602294777403193372014-05-09T16:40:06.745-04:002014-05-09T16:40:06.745-04:00This implementation is really clean, but I don'...This implementation is really clean, but I don't think it's developable in its current form. R&D isn't willing to print Vulshock Morningstar at common because it warps the game so much, so there's no way I could ever see them printing Wurm Mecha. The best solution that springs to mind is to drop the P/T boosts and replace them with keywords. Even so, we'd probably have to desynchronize either the Mecha or equip costs to balance them.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784920130399590671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-86600576886261795292014-05-09T16:39:35.327-04:002014-05-09T16:39:35.327-04:00I don't understand what makes Blueprint Tactic...I don't understand what makes Blueprint Tactician different from, say, Akroan Mastiff. Yes, it's an on-board trick, but so are a ton of creatures, right? As far as the card-revealing goes, players will probably assume that the opponent will have something to reveal unless he/she is down to 0-2 unrevealed cards in hand.lpaulsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07772860908442278112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5479847193762153273.post-73754345027537384312014-05-09T16:32:57.235-04:002014-05-09T16:32:57.235-04:00This is certainly my favorite implementation. I w...This is certainly my favorite implementation. I would definitely NOT print Turn to Slag in this set though!Tommy Occhipintihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13495646355536064735noreply@blogger.com