Friday, March 6, 2015

Weekend Art Design Challenge 030615—corndoggy

Weekend Art Challenge
Greetings, artisans! Click through to see this weekend's art and the design requirements for your single card submission, due Monday morning. Every submission warrants feedback, and everyone is encouraged to give feedback. You may use that feedback to revise your submission any number of times, though only the version rendered will be included in the review, if someone volunteers to render the cards.


Design a creature card for this art that's interesting but three lines of rules text or less.

129 comments:

  1. Goblin Steampunk [1R]
    Creature — Goblin Artificer [common]
    Arsenal (When this enters the battlefield, you may attach an Equipment you control to it.)
    1/1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I forgot all about him.

      Delete
    2. Regardless of kor outfitter this is a clean keyword. I foresee issues with this circumventing the most valuable knob on equipment though. Most "arsenal" guys would probably have to be costed much higher than would look appealing. What colors would you expect this ability to belong to?

      Delete
    3. I suspect this is not exciting enough to warrant a keyword. It does nothing unless you are a) running a lot of equipment, b) have one in play, and c) don't want to keep it on whatever it's already on. That's so much payoff for such a tiny benefit.

      Delete
    4. Good point Evan. It's not a block mechanic, but could still be a guild mechanic in Racnica 3. Boros I presume.

      Delete
    5. I don't think this has a future as a keyword mechanic. It very loudly messages "play a deck with lots of equipment" which is a terrible thing to do in limited (you should basically never play more than 3). WOTC has been very good about not printing cards that strongly encourage players to do things they shouldn't.

      I think you could bend over backwards to make a set with enough Living Weapons (or similar) to justify this, but at that point you have to ask yourself why you're doing that.

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    6. I think these are very fair comments. It's probably not a great idea.

      Delete
  2. Mogg Weaponmaster
    1RR
    Creature - Goblin - Rare
    R: Flip a coin. If you win the flip, CARDNAME gains double strike until end of turn. Otherwise, sacrifice it.
    4/1

    I stumbled on a coin-flipping rattlesnake ability while trying out different designs and thought the gameplay would be really interesting. I'm not sure if this is the best design for the mechanic or the art, but I think that's a nugget to file away.

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    Replies
    1. Writing up an explanation of why I hate this card convinced me that it is interesting. Development would have to be extra careful to make sure this never got anywhere close to constructed though.

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    2. PS: Good job! I'm afraid this won't fit on three lines though.

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    3. Fair point. Maybe a 1R 2/1, or a 2RR 4/1?

      I'm crossing my fingers that this slides in just at 3 lines.

      Delete
    4. Unfortunately you're sunk by... the length of the name.

      "Mogg Dude" just barely fits.

      Delete
    5. Let's go with "Mogg Ace" as the name then.

      :)

      Delete
    6. Updated version:

      Mogg Ace
      2RR
      Creature - Goblin - Rare
      R: Flip a coin. If you win the flip, CARDNAME gains double strike until end of turn. Otherwise, sacrifice it.
      4/1

      Delete
    7. all-or-nothing coin flips aren't for everybody. I love them!

      That said, would this appeal to more players if the activation cost more and didn't have an "otherwise" clause?

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    8. I like how swingy the coin flip is. All or nothing is way more exciting than incremental advantages for chaotic events like this.

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    9. how many characters are in 3 lines of rules text/where are you guys compiling cards?

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    10. Jenesis is doing the renders this week, and if you need to try different wordings for length, there's a link to MSE in one of the comment threads lower down.

      Sadly we can't necessarily say "X characters is three lines of text", because different characters and symbols require different spacing, and Magic likes to have a particular template for where words fall on lines. If you're close, adding a quotation in the flavor text can reduce the font size enough to bridge the gap in some cases as well. Good luck!

      Delete
  3. Goblin Grenadier 2R
    Creature- Goblin (Uncommon)
    2/2
    First strike
    R, Sacrifice a creature: Target Goblin gets +5/+0 until end of turn.

    Going for a couple of different synergies here-- first strike plus power boost and first strike plus sacrifice. I wanted to say "Sacrifice a Goblin: target creature..." but that would have pushed it to four lines of rules text in MSE. :) There's also a case to be made for "Sacrifice a Goblin: target Goblin" which would make this more of a pure tribal card. Anyone have a strong preference among those versions?

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    Replies
    1. This is pretty nuts. Do you intend this to be sorcery speed? Just imagine having this and Ponyback Brigade.

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    2. Not to be a killjoy, but I feel the correct template is "Goblin creature", so it's already four lines nonetheless :(

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    3. Goblin Grenade can be so impactful because you're 2-for-1'ing yourself to play it (you're down the goblin you sac as well as the Grenade itself.) if you put it on an ability instead of a spell, it needs to be balanced appropriately to compensate.

      Delete
    4. Points taken. Revised design:

      Goblin Grenadier 2RR
      Creature- Goblin (Uncommon)
      2/2
      First strike
      R, Sacrifice a Goblin: Target creature gets +5/+0 until end of turn.

      "When I said 'teach them to throw the cursed things', this wasn't what I had in mind!"
      —Ivra Jursdotter


      At 4 mana, the ability won't be so oppressive because the opponent will probably have stabilized by the time we're ready to use it. To Evan's points: part of balancing this card was changing 5 damage to +5/+0-- that way it takes some work to make the ability even a 1-for-1, assuming the opponent has stuff to block with. Still pretty crazy with Goblin Rabblemaster and the like, but that card was broken already. And I added flavor-text to get my preferred rules text to fit on three lines... horrible, I know.

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    5. If I have 4 creatures and you have 3, this lets me do 15 damage to you. I don't think htat is okay.

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    6. I would argue that it is OK by current development standards. You have to play three Goblins and (say) three Mountains in the first 3 turns, then Mountain + Goblin Grenadier on turn 4, at which point it is painfully obvious what you are doing. If I have fewer than 3 creatures and no removal or combat-disrupting spells (e.g. Fog) by this point, I'm probably dead to your Goblin deck anyway no matter what Goblins you're playing. In other words, this scenario requires that you have an excellent draw and I have no disruption. But from that situation, a Modern combo deck should be able to win on turn 3 or 4 and a Standard combo deck on turn 4 or 5. The soonest Goblin Grenadier can kill you is turn 5, so as a combo piece it seems reasonably balanced.

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    7. The situation I described is easily done in limited, and you have made this an uncommon. I don't think modern combo is the correct comparison for power level. Make it Sorcery speed, or make it tap, or make it only hit blocked creatures, or make it +3/+0... there are a lot of options here, but as presented I think this is pretty far from printable, and I think if it were printed it would be absolute misery in the limited environment.

      All that said, if this was printed in a Commander set where it wouldn't see limited play, it might be fine, given ample removal abounding.

      Delete
  4. Goblin Bomber 1R
    Creature - Goblin (C)

    Sacrifice ~: ~ deals 2 damage to target player.

    2/1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My only request: can the name be a riff of Sakura-Tribe Elder?

      Delete
  5. I'll do the renders this week.

    Sly Sniper 1RG
    Creature - Goblin (C)
    First strike, reach
    Sly Sniper can’t attack if it blocked last turn.
    3/1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't like the memory issues. Could do "Whenever ~ blocks, tap it, and it doesn't untap during its controllers next untap step."

      Why do you want to do this? There is already a tension between attacking and blocking built into Magic, it seems building a slightly different but similar one in is redundant.

      Also, I cannot imagine them printing a 3 power first striker for 3 at common. They are super board warping, and can easily grind the game into a state where no one can attack (especially since this one has Reach).

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    2. The feel I'm going for is "whenever this guy gets into combat, he has to take a turn off to reload."

      Reworked, going for same flavor but more complexity:

      Sly Sniper R
      Creature - Goblin (R)
      T: Sly Sniper deals 3 damage to target player. It can’t untap. You may pay 6 to end this effect.
      1/1

      Delete
    3. Returning him to hand might capture that flavor.

      1R: ~ gains first strike and reach. Return it to its owners hand at end of turn.

      Delete
  6. Artillery Keeper 2R
    Creature - Goblin
    Unequip an attacking creature you control: it deals damage to target player equal to its power.
    2/2

    Obviously a first draft/not real templating. I'll fiddle with that and the rules text once I have MSE later. How far away am I from three lines now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pulling off a (presumably power pumping) equipment to deal damage equal to the power (which will resolve after the equipment comes off) feels awful!

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    2. Yeah, I was wondering about that. The obvious go-to is something around CMC, but that would take some re-working, line-wise.

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    3. Might be unsalvageable for the current challenge, but:
      Tap an equipped creature you control: it deals damage to target player equal to its power. Unequip all artifacts attached to that creature.

      Delete
    4. Unfortunately "Unequip" is slang instead of Magic wording. The full text of the effect is "Unattach all Equipment from [...]", as seen on Disarm.

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    5. Got it.

      Artillery Keeper 2R/W
      Creature - Goblin (u)
      Unattach an equipment from an attacking creature you control: That creature deals 3 damage to target player.
      "Times like these help keep me in business."
      —Grezkrick, Arms Dealer

      Delete
    6. I still really think this is bending equipment in the wrong direction. You don't want to equip them just so you can unequip them, especially when they're attacking.

      Also note that you can do this in the "End of combat step" which is probably not what you intend? No new/intermediate player would see it any way.

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    7. I think there's a card in there (with the right timing, at least) that could make good work of that tension, but it's possible that it's best to just avoid the tension altogether.

      Artillery Keeper 2R/W
      Creature - Goblin
      Whenever an equipped creature you control attacks, Artillery Keeper deals 2 damage to defending player.
      2/2

      Delete
    8. Fits 3 lines just exactly. Still uncommon I assume? With or without flavor text?

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    9. I don't see how this can be mono-White, so it can't be hybrid. It is still encouraging you to do something a little unnatural, putting equipment on a bunch of different creatures, but if they do something like equipment tokens I could see this seeing the light of day as a build around me uncommon for draft, though probably with 1 damage instead of 2.

      Delete
    10. I think the flavor of "give each of your creatures a sword" is better than "give one of your creatures three swords", so I would argue encouraging wide vs. tall equipment feels natural.

      I think this is restricted enough to be possible in white-ish space, and I'm comfortable with the hybrid, but obviously this is why there are design teams, to debate that out. In the meantime, as much as as a build-around, this is designed to just be a grey ogre that helps out an "equipment matters" as-fan in a slightly new way.

      Delete
    11. Uncommon, and no flavor text is fine. Thanks!

      Delete
  7. Shady Weapons Trader
    1R
    Uncommon
    Creature - Goblin Rogue
    2/1
    Whenever a goblin you control attacks, you may pay 1R. If you do, it gets +2/+0 until end of turn.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Goblin creature" pushes it into a fourth line.

      Delete
    2. I think "goblin" is correct. Only creatures can attack, so the "goblin creature" is implied

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    3. jack and Mike are right here. See Leeching Sliver.

      Delete
  8. Goblin Farshot (R)
    RR
    Creature - Goblin Rogue
    When CARDNAME is exiled from anywhere, it deals 2 damage to target opponent.
    2/2

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No check to see if you have mountains, red mana, or red permanents?

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    2. Nope. See also: Narcomoeba.

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    3. Will anyone be excited to open this as their rare? To me this feels like it wants to be a Johnny card but it is too low of power level, because even if you exile all four of them that is still only 8 damage. Can it be Lightning Bolt instead?

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    4. It's meant to interact favorably with red's new mechanic of "exile off the top of your library, then cast." It's intended for Jenny and Spike. It's not supposed to win the game on its own, nor would I understand why anyone would expect a 2-cmc card to. The people who would be excited to open this are the same ones who would be excited to open Legion Loyalist, Firedrinker Satyr, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Bloodsoaked Champion, Soldier of the Pantheon, etc. - cheap efficient creatures often make the rare slot.

      Delete
    5. I think you have half of a cool card. I just don't think the 2 damage to a player is the other half.

      Delete
  9. Gremlin Hero {2}{R}

    Creature - Goblin Archer (Uncommon)

    {T}, Sacrifice any number of artifacts: Gremlin Hero deals that much damage to target creature or player.

    2/1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For conservation of space "T, Sacrifice X artifacts: CARDNAME deals X damage to target creature or player."

      Delete
    2. Mike George's appears to be the standard template specifically for costs of permanents' activated abilities (spells use "any number"). Making that change. It fits 3 lines regardless.

      Delete
  10. Interesting. So many designs, so fast!
    What is MSE? How do I determine number of lines?
    Also, stoked for BATTLE FOR ZENDIKAR

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Magic Set Editor is a free program that renders cards.

      http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net
      It's really easy to use and has a ton of great features

      Delete
  11. Gnork, Deck Scoundrel (no mana cost)
    Legendary creature- goblin pirate (rare)
    Dash R
    2/2

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suppose the reminder text could be seen as violating the challenge...nothing says rares have to have reminder text right? Thoughts on this?

      Gnork could be done as mana cost R, with "haste" and "return Gnork to his owner's hand @eot" but sort of loses the spirit I was going for.

      Delete
    2. I'm assuming this has a red color identity marker?

      We just had Zurgo Bellstriker spoiled, but this is certainly a neat tweak on it.

      You're lucky my version of MSE doesn't auto-populate the reminder text for dash :P

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    3. You can right click over the reminder text to disable it

      Delete
    4. I like the haste, bounce at EOT approach way better. It's far less confusing.

      Delete
    5. I agree with Evan, this is best done as a tweak on Viashino Sandscout.

      Delete
  12. Point Blank Grenadier R
    Creature - Goblin (U)
    3/1

    I don't know why none of the rest of you can stick to 3 lines of text. :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Poor Jackal Pup...

      I love this card design. It's great for a tribal set that needs to cut down on complexity.

      But, do you think the first vanilla 3/1 for one will be Red and not White?

      Delete
    2. I hope so. I'd differentiate white and red weenies by letting red go "taller" and white go "wide". I'd much rather white get

      W
      sorcery
      Put two 1/1 white soldier tokens onto the battlefield .

      and have red get the 3/1

      Delete
    3. That said, this is a fun challenge:

      Point Blank Grenadier 2R
      Creature - Goblin (c)
      Trample
      6/1

      Delete
    4. Point Blank Grenadier RR
      Creature - Goblin (U)
      Double Strike
      2/1

      Delete
    5. I think a vanilla 3/1 for 1 is a bad idea in any color. Powerful aggressive one drops like this add so much variance to games, and that isn't what Magic wants. See Delver of Secrets.

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    6. Essay question: what would the ramifications of a 3/1 for 1 be in Magic? Would it make the game better or worse?

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    7. I have very little developmental skill, but I think the game would be worse. For the reasons Tommy Occhipinti has stated above. There's a line to be traced for power creep in the game in general, and I think a 3/1 in any color largely exceeds that line.

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    8. I get the developmental concerns but really, no one was playing Red in Standard until it got Hordeling Outburst and suddenly it was able to bring action. Now that R/W is a thing, it's nice to see Red get some attention as a real color to play. Keep in mind, this card is just as one-dimensional as the cards you'd find in a mono red Hammerhands deck. It doesn't add an extra angle of attack or gum up the board in an alarming way. I don't think a 3/1 for R is remotely the same thing as a flying 3/2 either.

      Delete
    9. Keep in mind it wasn't too long ago that R&D said that if you thought it was okay to print a 2/1 for R that couldn't block you weren't fit to work in development. Obviously that line has shifted quite a bit, but a 3/1 for R is in another state.

      Also, pushing this one strategy for Red so hard is always R&D's justification for not giving Red more diverse options. "We can't give Red bounce because it would be too good with X, Y, Z." Rather than pushing this one tiny thing that Red already does even further, I'd rather see R&D start to pull back on that strategy to allow them to expand the color slightly. I am happy to see R&D doing this with the cube.

      Delete
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  14. Goblin Rogue
    Token Creature - Goblin Rogue 1/1
    Ignite (When this creature dies, you may have it deal 1 damage to target creature or player.)

    Ooh, what makes this token?! How interesting... Anyway, I'd love to see this keyword in Black and Red. There's some board complexity, but the concept is clean.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Goblin Dual-Wielder R
    Creature - Goblin Soldier (R)
    Double strike (This creature deals both first-strike and regular combat damage.)
    1/1

    Too strong? Feedback appreciated as always.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Would Fencing Ace have been costed at W if it hadn't been in the same block as Madcap Skills?

      Delete
    2. To me, no. A 1 cmc double striker leads itself to deck that plays Infect-style. It could be a feature, but I'm personally not thrilled.

      Delete
    3. If this is the only 1 drop double striker in Standard (or ever) though? Being only able to play 4 in a deck does hinder it quite a bit. Infect is strong in Modern because there are redundancies with Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Inkmoth Nexus, and sometimes even Ichorclaw Myr or Plague Stinger. Even if this card is now added to those decks (which I doubt), that's another color needed in the mana base.

      Obviously it's super strong, there's no denying that. But I think this could get to be the Zurgo Bellstriker of its set.

      We could also throw on "attacks each turn". Riot Piker (as a poor comparison) never really saw play from what I recall.

      Could go super weird with it, and make it a 1/0 or a 2/0 first strike.

      Delete
    4. Like the 3/1 for 1 discussed earlier, I think a 1/1 double striker for one is within the realm of what can be printed from a power level point of view, I don't think it is as good as the best cards in standard. But, like the 3/1 for one, I think it creates a really unpleasant metagame around it that is infused with tons of variance. One drops are just a very bad place to put really powerful cards because of how impacted they are by variance.

      Delete
    5. What about

      1R
      First strike
      2/1

      ?

      Delete
    6. That's fine. Already exists in White as Youthful Knight.

      Delete
    7. 2/1 first strike for 2 is strictly better than Riot Piker, for whatever that's worth (probably not much, considering Ash Zealot).

      I've always wanted to see a 1-mana double-striker printed. I think the way to go is to make it a 0/3 or something like that.

      Delete
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    Replies
    1. Thieves-Gang Mugger 1RR
      Creature - Goblin Rogue (Rare)
      Whenever a Goblin you control attacks, you may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
      3/1

      Delete
    2. Love it! Wish it was a bit bigger on the back end, though. The lopsided p/t encourages attacking but the "lord" effect encourages you to avoid attacking if the opponent could trade for it.

      Delete
    3. I'm a bit scared by how much this lets you peel through your deck. I'd rather it only trigger once if you attack with one or more goblins.

      Delete
  17. So blogspot is being stupid and not letting me use nested reply. This is a comment on Evan Jones's card:

    And here I was thinking you were supposed to loot it away then pitch it to Treasure Cruise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That was also my inclination. The exile draw is very cool. Of course you can do both!

      Delete
  18. Goblin Bomber 1R
    Creature - Goblin (C)
    As long as Goblin Bomber is equipped, it can’t be blocked except by two or more creatures.
    2/1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I didn't like this at first glance, since it seems like a lot of work to go through for a small evasion ability, but this particular evasion ability actually works very well with equipment, since it will be difficult to double block without being two for oned.

      As long as much of the equipment in the set provides 2 or more power, I like this.

      Delete
  19. Goblin Sniper 1RR
    Creature - Goblin Rogue
    Deathtouch
    Whenever a creature dealt damage by Goblin Sniper this turn dies, it deals 2 damage to it's controller.
    1/3

    Not sure about the numbers, maybe it could be damage equal to it's power, but that would be too long.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Well, text was too long, here is a shorter version:

      Goblin Sniper 1RR
      Creature - Goblin Rogue (Rare)
      Whenever a creature blocks or is blocked by Goblin Sniper, it deals 2 damage to it’s controller.
      1/3

      Delete
    3. "it" creates ambiguity. Who is hitting its controller, the Sniper or the opposing creature?

      Delete
    4. Messed the whole design up, this way it loses the intended flavor (the opponent's creature blowing up in their face). New Version:

      Goblin Sniper 1RR
      Creature - Goblin Rogue (Rare)
      Whenever Goblin Sniper blocks a creature, destroy that creature and it deals 2 damage to it’s controller.
      1/2

      I'm not sure about the numbers, but I like the idea of letting the Goblin stick a bomb to the attacking creature.

      Delete
    5. (Why can't I edit this stuff...)
      The name doesn't actually fit the mechanic:

      Goblin Grenadier 1RR
      Creature - Goblin Rogue (Rare)
      Whenever Goblin Grenadier blocks a creature, destroy that creature and it deals 2 damage to it’s controller.
      1/2

      Delete
    6. As worded, Goblin Grenadier doesn't die. That can't be what is intended, right?

      Delete
    7. Sort of, but I don't think that's so big of a problem, since it can be dealt with pretty easily any other way and it's also not really what you want to do in a probably mono-red deck because of the two colored mana in it's cost. I'm not sure if it is too good, but I don't think so.

      Delete
  20. Laconic Demolitionist {1}{R}
    Creature - Goblin Rogue (Rare)
    Whenever a land is destroyed, CARDNAME deals 2 damage to target creature.
    2/1

    I appreciate an LD deck isn't the kind of thing R&D want to encourage, for good reason. But in a Standard with just one three-drop LD spell (maybe Goblin Fulminator), imagine you're playing against someone who dropped this on turn 2. You have a blocker in hand, a 2/2 or 0/3. Do you play it?

    The word "destroyed" is a little unusual, but "put into a graveyard from the battlefield" is far too many characters :/ It also serves to prevent this triggering off fetchlands, Ghost Quarter a second time, etc.

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    Replies
    1. I don't hate this from an LD point of view, but despite re-reading this a few times, each time I expect it to deal damage to players, rather than creatures. Maybe it's just dingus egg, and maybe it's something you'd get quickly adjusted to in actual gameplay, but that's my reflex at least.

      Delete
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  22. Ordnance Scrounger 1R
    Creature - Goblin Warrior (R)
    Whenever an equipment enters the battlefield under your control, attach it to CARDNAME.
    2/1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm sure there's definitely space for fun-equipment bears outside of white, and it having a monopoly is probably not a great thing, but if I was printing this in a set I would definitely want to have a conversation on white and red's roles wrt artifacts in the set first. I might be overthinking, though. Probably fine at rare.

      Delete
    2. I figured this was in the same camp as Vulshock Battlemaster in that it's not saying "I'm good with weapons." It's saying "Ooh, I want that!" Anyway, I'm definitely not opposed to a discussion fleshing out where we should draw that divide.

      Delete
  23. Gobbo commando 1R
    Creature - goblin
    Whenever gobbo commando becomes blocked, he deals 1 damage to each atacking and blocking creature

    Weapons and goblins is not always an good combination
    2/2

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Does the commando deal damage to himself, or just to each other attacking or blocking creature?

      Delete
    2. Jeah, it does damage to himself. Why wasnt that clear?

      Delete
    3. Rarity? Also doesn't fit on 3 lines, even with the flavor text.

      Delete
    4. Uncommen?

      I tought flavourtextnwas excluded from the 3 line minimum.

      As im travveling now i only have my phone abailable so i have no way to really chek te line minumum. How close is it? Is it so close that a change of name could do it, or not even close?

      Delete
    5. Without changing the name, it could become "to each creature" and fit. Otherwise, the following fit three lines:

      Gob Commando 1R
      Creature - Goblin Warrior (u)
      Whenever CARDNAME becomes blocked, it deals damage to each attacking or blocking creature.
      "Weapons and goblins are not always a good combination."
      —Grezkrick, Arms Dealer
      2/2

      The attribution for the flavor text is a hack to reduce the font size without adding significant clutter.

      Delete
    6. Gob Commando 1R
      Creature - Goblin Warrior (u)
      Whenever CARDNAME becomes blocked, it deals 1 damage to each attacking or blocking creature.
      "Weapons and goblins are not always a good combination."
      —Grezkrick, Arms Dealer
      2/2

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete
  25. Goblin Engineer 1{R}
    Creature - Goblin (C)
    Goblin Engineer gets +1/+0 for each artifact you control.
    2/2

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Red doesn't (so far) get 2/2s for 1R without a downside. That doesn't really make sense, but regardless I think this should probably cost RR and be a 2/1.

      Delete
    2. I'd say "or" rather than "and". Should perhaps be uncommon too.

      Delete
    3. In a set that wants this, I imagine 1R 1/2 could be playable as well, and not unreasonable at common.

      Delete