We're back in the wild
Frontier for this question. Although the original pitch was for "Cowboys vs. Eldrazi", we've also discussed using Sandwurms as the iconic fatties. To me, this seems like an excellent move. Sandwurms lend our world some supernatural excitement, but they also fit easily into the desert settings thanks to the cultural cachet of
Dune. Because of our old friend
Craw Wurm, they're very much at home in Magic as well.
But what are these Sandwurms actually like? How do they work differently from other fatties? (For example, do cowboys ride them?) What are some mechanical themes that will paint these monstrous creatures? Readers, help us out:
what makes an awesome Sandwurm?
Unpredictability and Inevitability.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Sandwurms, I oddly enough think of Beetlejuice. Why? Because they were the only thing he was afraid of - a danger that could even consume the dead.
I think of Sandwurms as swallowing things whole, like Engulfing Slagwurm on a Mythic scale.
Sutured Sandwurm - 5BB
Creature - Sandwurm (M)
Trample
Engulf - As ~ enters the battlefield or when ~ attacks, exile all creature cards from all graveyards.
~'s power is equal to the total power of the exiled cards and its toughness is equal to their total toughness.
*/*
Whoops. Forgot the unpredictable Sandwurm.
DeleteSandstorm Wurms - 3RR
Creature - Sandwurm (M)
When ~ attacks, turn all creatures you control face down and randomize them. Defending players may block without any restrictions until end of turn. After blockers have been declared, turn all creatures you control face up.
5/5
And the inevitable one:
Persistent Earthshaker - 4GG
Creature - Sandwurm
Trample
~ gets +1/+1 for each land in your graveyard.
When ~ dies, you may sacrifice two lands. If you do, return ~ to the battlefield.
5/5
As well as another Engulf Wurm
Spell Swallower - 2GG
Creature - Sandwurm
Trample
Engulf - When ~ enters the battlefield or attacks, reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a land card, then exile those cards. Put a +1/+1 counter on ~ for each card exiled this way.
1/1
I like the idea of giant sandwurms so large/dangerous that it defines life in Frontier. But I disagree that they add supernatural excitement: They feel like natural denizens of the plane. Supernatural excitement is exactly what we lose by going with sandwurms instead of Eldrazi. An element is only supernatural to a plane if it's new and alien to its inhabitants. Like planeswalkers usually are on most planes, but magic itself rarely is.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'm not married to the battlecruiser entities of Frontier being supernatural anymore than I am to Frontier being a battlecruiser set at all.
You can make the Wurms into something supernatural.
DeleteThink of them as larvae being birthed up from the core of the Planet / Plane. The art depicts them as odd, foreign and alien, but the simple people have no other words for them.
Eventually, you reveal their "evolved " forms or even the brood mother, emerging from her slumber wthin the core.
Going back to the Cowboys vs Aliens motif - make your common and uncommon "Wurms" into Chestbursters and Facehuggers. Base them off the xenomorphs.
DeleteMindwurm - 2UU
Creature - Wurm
When ~ ETB, gain control of target creature until ~ either LTB or becomes the target of a spell or ability.
2/3
Brain Eggs - 2U
Enchantment - Aura
When enchanted creature dies, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of it.
Heart Wurm - 2BB
Creature - Wurm
When ~ ETB, target player sacrifices a creature.
3/1
Facehuggers - 1RR
Creature - Wurm
Haste
When ~ attacks, gain control of target creature until end of turn.
3/1
I meant "supernatural" in the sense of our own world, where there are no giant sandwurms. It helps evoke the "fantasy" half of "Western fantasy".
DeleteBlind Wurm 9GG
ReplyDeleteCreature-Wurm (cmn)
CARDNAME costs up to 1 less to cast for each point of combat damage creatures dealt to each other this turn.
Our town is peaceful. All the loud and hot-tempered folk have been eaten up.
7/6
Maybe gold is both the reason Frontier is being pioneered, as well as the source of the sandwurms size.
ReplyDeleteGreatwurm 8GG
Creature-Wurm (cmn)
Affinity for Gold
8/6
Hatewurm 4GG
Creature-Wurm (unc)
Trample
Whenever ~ attacks, it gets +1/+0 until EOT for each gold the defending player has.
5/5
Matewurm 2GG
Creature-Wurm (rare)
When ~ ETB, you may pay a gold. If you do, put a 4/4 green Wurm creature token OTB.
4/4
Inflatewurm 5G
DeleteCreature-Wurm (cmn)
~ ETB with a +1/+1 counter on it for each gold you have.
3/3
Gold feels unconnected, it could be some kind of crystal instead, and the Wurms would be shown with the crystals embedded in their scale hide or something.
DeleteI have been thinking this exact thing. Gold is an awfully mundane material in most fantasy settings; crystallized mana is much better.
DeleteFive commons
ReplyDeleteGhostown Protector
2W
Creature - Spirit Soldier
1/3
Defender
Wurmcall (X, Sacrifice this permanent: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Unlucky Claimjumper
1U
Creature - Human Rogue
2/1
Wurmcall (X, Sacrifice this permanent: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Tarpit Wurm
5B
Creature - Wurm
4/4
When Tarpit Wurm enters the battlefield, destroy target land.
Rockslide Wurm
3RR
Creature - Wurm
6/4
When Rockslide Wurm enters the battlefield, sacrifice a Mountain.
Functional Havenwood Wurm Reprint
6G
Creature - Wurm
5/6
Flash
Trample
But since there will probably be a lot of cowboy mechanics on creatures already, it might be a good idea to pump up the wurm count at common/uncommon via a spell keyword. This gives us something to do with the regualar spells every set needs, and still gives us the option for a handful of Wurm creatures at higher rarity, including a Mythic Rare wurm of ancient hugeness.
DeleteCall the Cavalry
2WW
Instant
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. Untap them.
Wurmcall (X, Discard this card: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Unstable Gem Mine
2UU
Instant
Draw three cards, then discard two cards.
Wurmcall (X, Discard this card: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Trap in Tar
2BB
Sorcery
Target player discards two cards at random.
Wurmcall (X, Discard this card: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Ominous Sandpit
2RR
Sorcery
Destroy target land.
Wurmcall (X, Discard this card: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Invoke the Behemoth
2GG
Instant
Target creature gets +5/+5 until end of turn.
Wurmcall (X, Discard this card: Put an X/X green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be less than 6.)
Playing with this version of Wurmcall should be like a reverse of cycling, where you cylce early to fix your hand. These spells are good early to midgame, and can be pitched later as big monsters.
Flavor explanation: It's not everyone versus wurms, its everyone versus everyone versus wurms. The locals are learning how to attract wurms when it can hurt their opponents.
I like the Wurmcall mechanic, but the flavor feels weird. What if it was an Elemental Call in Ekkremis to show the resurgence of mana to the world?
DeleteWhat if wurms are attracted by magic? Either:
DeleteMagic-Lovin' Wurm 7GG
Creature-Wurm (cmn)
~ costs up to G less for each spell cast this turn.
9/7
or
Six Feet Under 2BB
Sorcery (cmn)
Destroy target creature.
Wurmfood (Exile ~ from your gy: Add 2 to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast Wurm spells.)
Hmm, I lost the flavor I was going for with that second one. Another try:
DeleteBang! R
Instant (cmn)
~ deals 2 damage to target c/p.
Wurm cards have flash and cost up to 2 less to cast this turn.
Ekkremes Spell 1C
DeleteSorcery
Minor in-color effect.
Suncall (4C: Put ~ OTB face-down with a +1/+1 counter on it for each color of mana spent activating this ability. Suncall only as a sorcery.)
Jay, the Six Feet Under version of Wurmfood seems good for an Ankh-Theb's Arcane mechanic too.
DeleteScarab Brooding
4B
Sorcery - Arcane
Put two 2/2 black Insect creature token onto the battlefield.
Arcane teaching (Exile this card from your graveyard: Add 2 to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast Arcane spells.)
Agreed.
DeleteHere's one mechanic I had in mind, which I might have mentioned before.
ReplyDeleteVoracious Sandwurm (common)
5GG
Creature - Wurm
Swallow (Whenever ~ is blocked by a creature with lesser power, exile that creature and put a +1/+1 counter on ~.)
6/6
This. Very this.
DeleteSwallow has better flavor than "~ can't be blocked by creatures with lower power" and isn't as strong since it can be chump-blocked like Desecration Demon. It feels very comparable to Annihilator without working nearly the same. I'd put this at the top of the list of things to try on our battlecruisers.
DeleteDoesn't this eat every creature that teams up to block it? And worse yet, can't you stack the abilities so that the counters make it big enough to eat everything, even the bigger creatures?
DeleteIf there are higher than normal amounts of power-boosting, maybe as a way to represent dueling/sharpshooting, that could provide some defense against Swallow.
DeleteThere's also the possibility of printing more spells that can deal with giant unstoppable wurms: Divine Verdict, Wrack with Madness, Narcolepsy, etc.
DeleteBut really, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a wurm is a good guy with a wurm.
Reusing the Devour mechanic might also work for this flavor.
DeleteThis feels very much like a giant Wurm. It creates tense racing.
DeleteI was actually picturing a different type of Wurm in a different type of environment - huge 10/10s, sometimes being held off by Cacti Treefolk that reflect damage back to players or brave cowboys with the ability to surprisingly deal a lot of damage if you're holding the right cards in hand, using some form of the permanently reveal mechanic. The permanently reveal mechanic would give you more tricks to work with than usual, and there would crazy, dynamic, volatile combat where these 10/10s would live and die many times.
This swallow mechanic is much more flavorful, but it only creates a tense race in the final few turns. Which is actually a really cool thing to do. But it will make game progression similar to Rise of the Eldrazi.
I wonder if I'm thinking too much about the game play environment right from the beginning. I'm sure R&D would just create flavorful mechanics in the beginning, then try to develop an environment around that. But I can almost see this cool environment that involves destroying huge monsters with lots of combat tricks (which doesn't work with swallow). It makes me want to test environments rather than mechanics, each environment being a batch of mechanics that play well together.
@Nich - Devour is not a mechanic I ever want to see again. I stand by my GDS2 essay stating that it was the worst designed mechanic in Extended at the time, and no one cared when it returned in Planechase. The concept is something that can be built upon and improved, but that specific mechanic should be forgotten.
DeleteAnd one other, not necessarily compatible with the first:
ReplyDeleteElven Wurmmaster (common)
1G
Creature - Elf Scout
Wurmrider (Whenever a Wurm you control attacks, you may exile ~ riding it. When the ridden permanent leaves the battlefield, return ~ to the battlefield.)
Creatures ~ is riding have trample.
2/2
Exile is a mechanically brilliant solution to the mount/rider problem because it's so simple and relatively short. The flavor's a bit awkward, but it's likely worth it for a riding mechanic that really works.
DeleteI will ask the perennial question, do we put this on the riders or the mounts?
Riding Wurm 4GG
Creature-Wurm (cmn)
Mount (Whenever a creature with less power attacks, you may exile ~ under it. When that creature LTB, return ~ to the battlefield).
Creatures riding ~ get +4/+4.
4/4
Pretty sure I like yours better.
It's worth noting that this allows us to build monsters by combining creatures and should arguably be saved for the small and medium creatures as a recourse to fighting the massive creatures.
DeleteIn Frontier terms:
Xenocowboy 2W
Creature-Human Knight
Vigilance
Beast Rider (Whenever a Beast you control attacks, you may exile ~ riding it. When that Beast leaves the battlefield, return ~ to the battlefield.)
Creatures ~ is riding get +2/+2 and have vigilance.
2/2
Broncosaurus 3R
Creature-Beast (cmn)
Unless a creature is riding ~, it must attack each turn if able.
3/4
Hmm, I see some rules questions now:
DeleteCan a rider that's been exiled under one creature, be re-exiled under another? It can't because it's not on the field for it's ability to trigger, but will every player see that.
Can multiple creatures ride the same one? As written, they can. If we stick to wurms, that's fine, but if we want to leave rider open to less gargantuan mounts, I'd say not.
If we make Ekkremes our battlecruiser mechanic, we could use rider there in place of operate:
DeleteRed Team 2R
Creature-Human Pilot (cmn)
Mech Pilot (Whenever a Mech attacks, you may exile ~ piloting it. When that Mech LTB, return ~ to the battlefield.)
Mechs piloted by ~ have first strike.
2/2
Crimson Falconzord 2/R 2/R 2/R
Artifact Creature-Mech (unc)
1R: ~ gets +1/+0 and gains flying until EOT.
3/3
This is cool. We really should cover riding in some way in a Western set, just as much as gunfights.
DeleteShould it be something like Ride Wurm and Ride Mech? That would make it usable in many expansions.
I don't think we should use set complexity on mounts. We can have mounted cards with creature types of the riders like all previous mounted Magic creatures. We have more than enough complexity to spend on wandguns, maybe gold, and maybe permanently revealing cards. Exiling creatures to make creatures into pseudo equipment seems so unnecessary. I'm fine with one legendary creature that rides an albino wurm or whatever, but a whole bunch of them seems truly goofy.
DeleteI agree. We should just stick to using Magic's established creature enhancers: Auras and Equipment.
DeleteIf you really wanted to, you could make a case for a return of horsemanship. To make it different from flying, you would only include it on Auras:
Appaloosa 1G
Enchantment- Aura Mount
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains +0/+2 and horsemanship. It can't be enchanted by another mount.
Mustang R
Enchantment- Aura Mount
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains haste and horsemanship. It can't be enchanted by another mount.
The mechanical hole this is intended to fill is getting the big vanilla guys to deliver. Normally, a Vastwood Gorger is pretty mediocre in limited, because by the time it hits the board, it just gets chumped once or twice while you finish losing the game. But if you have playable little guys that are able to give it haste/trample/flying/intimidate/landwalk/lifelink ASAP, you can make better use of the fatties.
Delete@Jay Yes, multiple riders can get on a single sandwurm. I envision them all being 5/5 or larger, so I think that's fine.
@Nich None of our mechanics are locked in at this point, so how can there be no room? I'd say that riding comes in right behind shooting as the second most important thing that happens in cowboy movies.
@Wobbles Auras don't feel like mounts. They feel like auras. If we want a mechanic to portray riding, it has to be something new. And I certainly have no desire to bring back horsemanship.
It's not the mounts that are a Western trope . You're thinking of chases on horseback, guns ablazing, or maybe the cavalry riding over the hill to save the day in the nick of time. Or maybe catching up to a train on horseback, then jumping onto the side of the car. Or a posse riding out to rescue the mayor's daughter. It's not the mount that matters in these cases, it's the feeling of the chase. If you get sidetracked trying to nail mounts, you'll be squandering time and complexity resources. I know none of our mechanics are locked in. Hell, we aren't even sure we're persuing Frontier. But their are a handful of tropes that are more important in my mind than this.
DeleteI disagree with Nich's last post.
DeleteIt's true that the Werewolf mechanic eschewed representing the Moon literally, and instead just captured the abstract feeling of being scared about when they're going to turn into Wolves.
DeleteAre the Horses in Westerns closer to the Moon (not crucial) or the Werewolves (central)? I would say that while they're not as central, they're important enough that there should be cards that represent Horses, not just cards that evoke the feel of action sequences with Horses in them.
Maybe the mounts don't absolutely need a keyword mechanic. There could be individual designs to represent action sequences with Horses in them, for example a flash Getaway Horse creature that returns a creature you control to hand when it enters the battlefield. But we should at least try to find a keyword mechanic for riding.
Are we really considering a set based on the plot of Tremors 4?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvnhcdheAEs
Well, that depends on whose side the wurms are on. That will be decided by our mechanics, presumably.
DeleteSome art that show what Wurms might look like?
Deletehttp://tokoldi.deviantart.com/art/It-Won-t-Bite-290908239
http://tokoldi.deviantart.com/art/Summoning-The-Dragon-290718615
Sure, though without wings. But honestly, choosing art is the facet of design that I'm least interested in, because I know I'm completely unqualified to do it. I'm happy to say, "That's Creative's job!" and ignore it entirely. But I recognize that others feel differently.
DeleteDefinitely without wings.
DeleteI think the art helps inspire mechanical design too. For example, these guys look like they have bigger stats than Craw Wurm. I think they should be much bigger than ordinary MtG Wurms.
It can also help visualize how something would feel as a set theme. For example, these pieces of art show that burrowing Wurms can feel cooler than the monsters from Tremors. (Well, I actually haven't seen Tremors; I'm imagining the monsters in that film are much smaller.)
I don't know that Wurm riders are really a good idea because they go under ground.
ReplyDeleteThat said:
Burrow 2 (2, reveal this card and put it on the bottom of your deck from your hand or graveyard: Draw a card)
This allows your giant wurms to both cycle when you don't need them, and escape when your opponent kills them. The other neat thing is that it gives the bottom of your deck relevance:
Underground Expedition G
Sorcery
Look at the bottom two cards of your deck. You may put one of those cards in your hand.
Deepwell Eruption 3RR
Sorcery (u)
Reveal cards from the bottom of your deck until you reveal a creature card. Put that card on the battlefield, it has haste. Put the rest back on the bottom in random order. Sacrifice that creature at the beginning of the next end step.
Obviously, these Wurms would be of the enemy type of cowboys mining for gold. Like in Tremors 4.
I don't see burrowing wurms as an insurmountable problem with ride.
DeleteI've thought a lot about using the bottom of the library as a theme for underground stuff (see my GDS2 set) but I'm pretty concerned that it's fiddly and awkward.
I'm not a fan of cards that draw from the bottom of your deck, because it undoes the meaning of putting cards on the bottom. Same as effects that let you interact with exile. It just erodes our definitions.
DeleteThat said, Burrow is pretty cool. Though as written, we'd have to balance every card it's on with both cycling and cantripping.
Maybe just:
Cycling + "If ~ would go to graveyard from anywhere, put it on the bottom of your library instead."