Weekend Art ChallengeGreetings, artisans! Click through to see this weekend's art and the design requirements for your single card submission, due Monday morning. Every submission warrants feedback, and everyone is encouraged to give feedback. You may use that feedback to revise your submission any number of times, though only the version rendered will be included in the review, if someone volunteers to render the cards.
Design a card with this art addressing the sea creature trope. Don't use islandhome. Bonus points if your mechanic can be reused across blocks and at common. Does it warrant a keyword?
It's odd that Magic has a distinct mechanic for creatures that travel by sky, but doesn't have one for creatures that travel by sea.
ReplyDeleteRiptide Hunter 2{U}{U}
Creature - Elemental (4/1)
Common
Marine (This creature can only block or be blocked by creatures with Marine)
While Marine is functionally identical to Shadow, the fact that it's in mostly in blue allows for an interesting limited archetype (though we'll have make sure there aren't too many good Marine cards, or combat will become boring). The unique flavor of Marine allows for new card possibilities, such as:
Fisherman's Lure {0}
Artifact - Equipment
Common
Equipped creature gets +0/+2 and can block creatures with Marine.
Equip {2}
Torrential Downpour {3}{U}{U}
Sorcery
Rare
Until your next turn, all creatures without Marine get -3/-3 and gain Marine.
The issue is a flavor one - flying is a tactical advantage, being water-bound is a logistical restriction, one that the game has chosen to ignore in recent years (gameplay has to trump flavor when they are irreconcilable)
DeleteMarine looks like a very parasitic mechanic, and I don't know if we want a ton of pseudo-unblockables running around to cure its parasitism over time.
DeleteI completely disagree with the parasitism argument. Marine is exactly shadow, retextured to match a more general trope, based in the color with "unblockable" as a primary ability.
DeleteTwo thumbs up to Marine!
You know, I read all the examples and my mind went "parasitic" but you're right. The mechanic itself isn't parasitic.
DeleteThat said, there are all of five creatures in the currently fully-stocked standard that have unconditional "can't be blocked", which is essentially what this is if it's limited to blue creatures. So that brings us to, is it worth keywording an ability that only shows up 2-3 in a given block?
Note: Shadow is regarded very poorly by R&D, due to being so uninteractive.
DeleteAlso note that, mechanically, Blue doesn't want creatures that can't block.
As far as keywording it, I think it's a toss up. I could see it being evergreen but low density (like double strike) or just written out.
DeleteTerrain Swallower (common)
ReplyDelete4U
Creature - Serpent
Sacrifice a land: Put a +1/+1 counter on CARDNAME and tap it. Any player may activate this ability and only once per turn.
5/5
If Desecration Demon is black, is Terrain Swallower red?
DeleteWhile this is a cool card, I agree that sacrificing a land is a bit out of place on a blue common. I would suggest "exile an instant or sorcery you control", but that's neither common nor sea serpenty. :/ tough spot
DeleteHmm. I was trying to riff off the classic Sea Serpent "can only attack if land-based conditions are met" theme. This seems to be the wrong tack, though.
DeleteTerrain Swallower should definitely be red.
DeleteI think you want to pursue this from the angle of "what would blue like to feed on"? Not sure what the answer is myself, but this is what comes to mind:
Mana-Swallower Serpent {4}{U}
Creature - Serpent
{N}: Put a +1/+1 counter on Mana-Swallower Serpent and tap it. Mana-Swallower Serpent's controller may untap up to N lands. Any opponent may activate this ability and only once each turn.
4/4
(Note: I have no idea what number "N" should be, so I'm leaving it as an open thing. What do you guys think it should be?)
The first thing I thought of for 'feeding blue' is giving them mana to cast spells with. So... that's what I tried to capture here.
This gives you the mana to play instants (a blue thing) and slows them down (another blue thing). I think it might work.
How's this?
DeleteFathom Swallower (common)
5U
Creature - Serpent
At the beginning of combat on your turn, any opponent may tap all permanents he or she controls. If any player does, tap CARDNAME. Otherwise, CARDNAME can't be blocked this turn.
5/5
Making this 5UU due to common-ness.
DeleteDeep-Sea Leviathan 4UU
ReplyDeleteCreature - Leviathan Common
T: On your next turn, Deep-Sea Leviathan can't be blocked.
4/4
It's possible that memory issues could prevent it from being common, but in practice, it's almost always going to be activated at the end of the opponent's turn, so it shouldn't be a big deal. We could call the mechanic Dive if we wanted to do it again, or just to sell the flavor, but I don't think that's necessary.
I love this one! How fun and flavorful!
DeleteI love "tap to dive"-- it feels really resonant and makes for great movie-like moments. ("It went underwater! Where'd it go?" SNAP!) I'm guessing it should be limited to sorcery speed. And you might also consider granting hexproof for the next turn.
DeleteAgreed with Ipaulsen re: sorcery speed. I don't think the hexproof is necessary but it's certainly a cute idea.
DeleteAh, we're searching for the "Shangri La" of the multiverse: a solution to the Water World conundrum!
ReplyDeleteThis is a problem I've seen attempted (and attempted myself) many times to no great success. My fingers are crossed this time.
Can't wait to see the results!!!
This will do for now, but I'm still working on it...
DeleteSeabed Trawler 4U
Creature- serpent (common)
Affinity for islands
3/4
Affinity for Gold tokens?
DeleteI've found people anticipate sunken treasure in their watery locales and enjoy Gold tokens...thoughts?
Affinity for Gold tokens is awkward since it is combining two different cost reduction mechanics. After all, the net effect of using a Gold token is reducing the cost by one.
DeletePoint taken. Although this is a spin on Gold, in that you don't want to sacrifice them. You want to amass them. That particular mechanic seems more black to me.
DeleteGold tokens in an aquatic-themed set could be very fun with treasure chests and the like, but if there's a card that encourages you to hoard them, in the abstract I imagine it should be a dragon (or a greed demon, perhaps), rather than a sea creature.
DeletePastuer: agreed on everything you just said.
DeleteReplacing my initial design with:
DeleteVortex Angler 5U
Cre- Fish (unc)
Whenever CARDNAME attacks, tap each island on the battlefield. Then, empty all U from each player's mana pool.
Flavor text: Gulp!
3/3
Submerged Serpent [5U]
ReplyDeleteCreature — Serpent
Diving (As long as this creature is attacking, it can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
5/6
Currently, hexproof is being retooled as something you have only when attacking or not attacking. I can imagine either (or both) being keyworded and hexproof retired. I'm not sure which plays better, so based on the picture and flavour, I went for "hexproof when attacking".
The nice thing is that "Diving" can be applied to non-swimming creatures; this can easily be put on flyers and represent flyers that dive down onto their prey.
Neat concept. I didn't consider the generality of it. Good point about flyers having it too :)
DeleteTangentially related, if this concept were to be pushed as the hexproof replacement I could see this as a logical extension of the idea
Lurking (while this is not tapped your opponents can't target it and while it is tapped you can't target it)
Mike George: I don't think the drawback part of that is necessary at all. It's perfectly fine as a straight-up keyword of the mechanic seen on Dragonlord Ojutai.
DeleteBass: I agree that the Tromokratis variant of Hexproof is superb, but I would also like to point out that the Dragonlord Ojutai variant is just as good. Keywording one variant means the other variant can't be keyworded. I would prefer "hexproof" remain the keyword, and the other two remain unkeyworded. This allows us the most flexibility with our designs.
Ah crud, I misread this. It doesn't have Tromokratis' variant, it has the opposite.
DeleteI'm not so sure this one makes as much sense to keyword since it covers so few scenarios. A lot of removal spells will hit them when they aren't attacking, not when they are.
I don't think "flexibility with our designs" is as strong a priority as "easily grokkable and memorisable". Consider the situation before deathtouch was keyworded. There R&D had a great amount of flexibility with their designs... with the result that every pre-deathtouch deathtoucher works slightly differently, and players have to carefully read each one to figure out how it works. (I'm a long-time rules advisor and I misread Toxin Sliver as comboing with Quilled/Acidic/Thorncaster Sliver for some time.)
DeleteIt's definitely better to standardise on one repeated version of the ability, whether keyworded or not, to ease mindspace and comprehensibility and reduce play mistakes.
Sea Monster 5U
ReplyDeleteCreature - Serpent (C)
Whenever ~ attacks it gets -3/-3 until the end of the turn.
6/6
Is there a better name to suggest that thematically the thing is awkward on land?
PS: Meant to make a note, obviously Sea Monster is taken.
DeleteLurking Leviathan?
DeleteWaterbound Serpent?
Might look more appealing as "+3/+3 while untapped."
DeleteAgreed. The flavor might even be easier to pull off.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDeepwater Recluse
ReplyDeleteCreature - Eel
5/5
THIS can't attack if defending player controls two or more untapped creatures.
"It was thiiiiis big. Really!"
This probably can't quite be an evergreen mechanic but I got as close as I thought I could. It would be keyworded "reclusive" :) Originally it had "return to hand if its 'seen'" but that was fiddly so I just made it not attack. It's intended to fulfill a similar mechanical and flavor role to islandhome while being less fiddly.
mana cost?
DeleteOops, thanks.
Deleteassume 4U for a standard serpent.(though maybe it should be 5U?)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJay must have noticed that it was May 2014 the last time we did a “water world” design challenge. My submission at that time was:
ReplyDeleteNAME is at depth 2 (A player can’t target this with a spell or ability, or block it with a creature unless that player pays 2.)
Jay correctly pointed out that it should a keyword and not a characteristic for all creatures. He also stated that the mechanic makes perfect sense once you internalize its components, but it’s busy. I’ve been eager to redesign depth.
Hookjaw Prowler (RARE)
3GG
Creature – Fish Beast
3/3
Deepsea (Spells that target this creature cost 2/U more to cast. It can’t block or be blocked by a creature without deepsea unless defending player pays 2/U.)
G, T: Hookjaw Prowler fights target creature with deepsea you don’t control.
2/UG, T: Hookjaw Prowler fights target creature you don’t control.
First change I made was to make the taxing work both ways. It can help sell underwater-ness if the creature needs to do something to block a surface creature the same way a surface creature needs to do something to block it. I wanted the targeting tax to work both ways too, but to keep things simple in the keyword, I moved the tax onto the activated ability. Why include language that won’t matter 9 times out of ten?
My next change was removing the keyword’s variable. The number I submitted for depth was 2 because it seemed to me 1 was barely worth the mindspace of a keywaord, and 3 felt oppressive. I wanted the possibility of a variable, but thought 2 would work for most cards. Removing the variable and making the tax always 2/U does a few things. The Blue mana in the reminder text (along with “sea” in the new keyword name) helps sell the flavor more directly. “This is a water keyword. Look, it costs Blue.” I like the elegance of a one-word keyword when I plan on putting Deepsea on a bunch of creatures. Removing the variable makes having a bunch of them on the battlefield much easier to grok.
The twobrid mana of this version is what interests me most. I think Extort is the only other keyword with colored mana hardwired into its reminder text. Your mono white deck could pay Black for all its Extort triggers because the keyword was known to be connected to Black. I think a keyword called Deepsea having Blue hardwired in the cost makes sense. But it’s something I know WotC doesn’t like about “water world.” They don’t like designs that make players want to splash Blue into every deck. I think I’m sidestepping by only suggesting they splash Blue mana into their decks.
Nonsubmitted flavor text for this card: “I’m hooked on a feeding.”
When I saw this challenge, the first thing I thought was "I hope someone re-explores depth." I'm really impressed by the improvement - the 2/U needs to be looked at, but I like how much more streamlined this version is overall, and you may have found the most happy medium.
DeleteI like the idea of this mechanic - and I've pursued something similar myself - but I think there are a few problems with it.
Delete1.) Monohybrid certainly is interesting, but it limits this mechanic greatly. This can't appear as often as hybrid can, and it certainly can't appear if other monohybrid cards don't appear. (Unlike hybrid, which theoretically could.)
2.) The flavor is very limiting. One of the big problems with making a keyword is that you're going to have to attach a specific flavorful explanation to what could be broadly interpreted. Most of the evergreen keywords do a good job of leaving themselves vague enough to cover many mechanical interpretations - "first strike", for example, has a wide range of interpretations. But "deepsea" sticks you with, well, deepsea.
3.) Attaching two separate mechanical effects to the same keyword is tricky. Infect pulled it off because they 'felt analogous'. I think Deepsea's two effects also 'feel analogous', but they might not to other players.
4.) I'm not sure this mechanic needs the two drawbacks (being unable to target it and having to pay to block with it) Why not test it at all-positive, at least at first?
5.) This takes five lines of text. That's a lot!
6.) What colors are going to get this mechanic? The only color I can see this mechanic working for is blue.
7.) What's the benefit to keywording this? Is it really going to be used enough to be worth keywording? Especially since half of this is a strictly worse hexproof. (Not like that's a problem, mind you.)
By the way, when I explored this mechanic, it was in blue and colorless, which I felt worked best for it. (This was one of my very first sets, years ago, where every color had a unique pairing with colorless. It was a weird set.)
DeleteI do think this mechanic has potential - and that the 'cost-increasing', if applied only to opponent's spells as Icefall Regent does, is a way more fun way to do hexproof - but I'm not sure it's keywordable, for the reasons stated. Still, as a flavorful way to represent being in the deep sea, it's top-notch!
Why limit the ability with an integrated cost?
Delete"Deepsea N" allows you to utilize {2/U} here and leaves the ability open to be resused.
See cycling in Urza's Saga. Every cycler cost {2}. Had they incorporated {2} into the ability it wouldn't be as open ended as it is.
@Inanimate
Delete1.) I do imagine Deepsea could exist in a set that otherwise doesn’t have twobrid the same way I imagine Extort in a set without hybrid. I don’t know why you theorize one could and another couldn’t.
2.) Yeah, I went heavy on the specific flavor for depsea, but that was intentional. Taking sea out of the name and changing twobrid to 2 can fix that.
3.) I hope the symmetrical aspect of the keyword connects the two effects.
4.) Isn’t the all-positive version of deepsea exactly the problem WotC tried to correct with hexproof and evasion? You’d have to increase the mana cost to account for it. But then late game you draw a card that’s overcosted and you’re opponent’s got the mana to counteract it. If the effect stays symmetrical it can be cost neutral. That’s my thought anyway.
5.) On Hookjaw Prowler, its three lines of text with a splash into the fourth line for “pays 2/U.)”. Worth noting, the all-positive version without twobrid would have a longer 4th line for “defending player pays 2.)”
6.) I don’t know what colors, but I could imagine the set it’s introduced in has it in all five colors to some degree, and subsequent sets has it in Blue and Black.
7.) Strictly worse hexproof PLUS strictly worse evasion together seems interesting enough for a keyword.
Nich:
Delete1.) Monohybrid certainly is nowhere near as deciduous as hybrid, that's why. That's been stated by MaRo at least once, i think.
3.) It does.
4.) It's not exactly the problem. Hexproof + evasion, they can't do anything about it. Here, there's always a way around it.
5.) Try it on MSE. It's five lines of text on an actual magic card.
6.) I don't think this is doable in all five colors, since it isn't in the color pie of every color. It's pseudo-hexproof + evasion. What colors have both? Only blue. Since it 'taxes' it can MAYBE be white, but probably not.
7.) I disagree, since I doubt you can print enough of these to be worth keywording.
If we assume that the plane of battle is always above the deepest sea - that even two creatures from the deeps would need to expel some energy to tangle with each other - we could remove the "by a creature without deepsea" and save some much-needed text space. It's a departure from flying/flanking/shadow, but for me it's not a dealbreaker, and makes the boardstate ever-so-slightly simpler.
DeleteConsider:
Hookedjaw Prowler 3GG
Creature - Fish Beast
Deepsea (Spells targeting this creature cost 2/U more to cast. It can’t block or be blocked unless defending player pays 2/U.)
2/UG, T: Hookedjaw Prowler fights target creature you don’t control.
This gets us to 6 clean lines in full text size, or 5 easily-readable with a single line of bathic flavor text.
@Inanimate, I think the first set you put deepsea in is "water world" and the setting would allow for a color pie stretch if it suits the flavor. In much the same way phyrexian mana (imperfectly) stretched the color pie by following the rule of "things artifacts can do." I don't worry about matching it to shroud or hexproof's color pie limitations because it's really just a tax to interact, which hasn't been so defined that it has to stay in certain colors.
Delete@Pasteur
This is a perfect change, and as you say, the loss makes playing with these cards much simpler. Consider it my final submission:
Hookjaw Prowler (RARE)
3GG
Creature – Fish Beast
3/3
Deepsea (Spells that target this creature cost 2/U more to cast. It can’t block or be blocked unless defending player pays 2/U.)
2/UG, T: Hookjaw Prowler fights target creature you don’t control.
Hooked on a feeding.
Gulping Trencher 4U/RU/R
ReplyDeleteCreature - Serpent (c)
When ~ blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +4/-4 until end of turn.
2/8
The idea is that the sea creature is very difficult to kill from afar, and very difficult to survive against from up close. Not sure how to sell that trope more without particularly blunt flavor text, though.
I'll do the renders this week.
I like this flavor. It fits perfectly with blue mechanics, too! Being a hybrid works great with the art, as well. Nice job!
DeleteHighwater Serpent {4}{U}{U}
ReplyDeleteCreature - Serpent (C)
Islandwalk
Highwater Serpent can't attack unless an Island entered the battlefield under your control this turn.
6/6
The serpents of the Eustal shore can only feed during high tide or a flood, so they always feed enough to last until the next opportunity.
My intent was to have the flavor be that they can only attack when the 'water is high', and the battlefield is submerged and trapped with them. I decided an Island entering the battlefield was a good way to mechanically represent that flavor.
It was a bit tough to get across in the card, though. Seems like a lot of people are having that issue.
Awesome.
DeleteI like this. The name is evocative enough to tell the story even before your explanation. This is a tight design.
Deletecool this idea also crossed my mind.
DeleteShoal Serpent says hi.
DeleteIpaulsen: Bah, I knew it must've been done. :P I'll explain the comparative value of the two cards, in my eyes.
Delete1.) Shoal Serpent has defender and loses it. I think this makes it look more negative at first glance than my card. I originally considered losing defender, but I decided not to do that. However, the benefit of having defender and then losing it is that it's more clear what's going on to a new player. DOUBLY however, Glacial Crasher shows my wording is probably fine. So...
2.) Shoal Serpent has no evasion and is a smaller body. The Islandwalk evasion isn't very interactive, but I figured I should probably include it for flavor, and since this ability is gonna trigger so rarely that it's probably fine. The smaller body definitely crossed my mind, but again, this ability isn't gonna trigger often at all... however, this card is still a defensive powerhouse. So it should probably be a 5/5, like Shoal Serpent and Glacial Crasher.
And thanks to everyone else for the kind words!
DeleteLurking Mosahk 4UU (Common)
ReplyDeleteCreature - Serpent
CARDNAME cannot attack unless the defending player controls a tapped creature.
"Water is only ever still by design." - Shol Proverb
6/5
Interesting. What's the flavor of this? The defending player has a blind spot in their perimeter, or some such?
DeleteIt's more meant to evoke the idea of an ambush predator. It won't hunt unless there is a vulnerable creature.
DeleteAh, I see! That's really nice!
DeleteAbyssal Serpent 2BB
ReplyDeleteCreature- Serpent (Uncommon)
2/3
Oceanic (This creature can't attack unless you pay 1 and can't be blocked unless defending player pays 1.)
Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card.
Trying to create a 'deep ocean'-feeling keyword that makes sense in colors other than blue. The flavor justification is that going from the deep ocean to the shallows or vice versa takes more effort than usual.
Darkwater Chaser 5U
ReplyDeleteCreature - Fish (C)
Submerge (You may have this creature enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it. It can't be blocked as long as it has a -1/-1 counter on it.)
4/4
Deepsea Angler 4U
Creature - Fish (C)
Drown 4 (Whenever this creature becomes blocked, it and creatures blocking it get -4/-0 until end of turn.)
4/4
Maybe 'Dive' is a better name for the first mechanic actually. The flavor is supposed to be that the fish is hard to stop in deep water, but more powerful above where there's less pressure. A riff on Unleash of course.
DeleteBenthic Leviathan
ReplyDelete6U
Creature - Fish - Rare
U: Creatures blocking or blocked by CARDNAME get -1/-0 until end of turn.
6/6
Reverse firebreathing, flavored as the ability to dive deeper to avoid being damaged. I suspect at lower rarities it would cost 1U or 2U, or even have the rootwalla "activate this only once per turn" restriction.
This is interesting and quite cool. Flavor text would go a long way in making this clear. It could also represent any other form of -1/-0 - confusing them, flooding them, pinning them down, etc.
DeleteMonster of Profound Depths 5UU
ReplyDeleteCreature - Leviathan
Unfathomable (This creature can't be blocked if you have more cards in hand than defending player.)
5/5
The problem with this is three-fold.
Delete1.) Blue already has a LOT of evasion effects and keywords. It doesn't need to keyword another.
2.) This is a really uninteractive mechanic. How can your opponent fight back? There's two ways: by getting rid of cards in your hand, and dealing direct damage or destroying this. Both of those aren't very easy to come by.
3.) This encourages players to hold cards in hand, which leads to unfun and boring gameplay. Forecast, Kamigawa's "Wisdom" mechanic, etc. all encourage similar gameplay and all have been considered failures for precisely this reason.
3) if that was true, then they wouldn't have made werewolves DFC which encouraged players to not play spells.
DeleteScourge of the Traders- 3UU
ReplyDeleteCreature- Serpent
Unblockable
Bounty- When this creature dies, the player who killed it may have two target creatures gain unblockable until end of turn.
3/3
Uncommon
DeleteI don't think the rules manage would like "the creature who killed it."
DeleteYeah. If A owns this and Veteran Armorer, and B casts Rhystic Lightning at this, but C pays {2} then activates her own Festercreep twice, but in between the two abilities resolve D responds by Shocking the Veteran Armorer, who counts as having killed this?
DeleteDeep-sea Hrenax 4UU
ReplyDeleteCreature - Leviathan (uncommon)
Defender
{t}: Cardname fights target creature if it has not untapped durring its controller last untap phase.
4/7
Mindtide Deeplurker 3UU
ReplyDeleteCreature - Serpent (uncommon)
Mindwalk (This creature can't be blocked as long as you are the player with most cards in hand.)
Whenever ~ deals comabat damage to a player, draw a card.
3/4
The problem with this is three-fold.
Delete1.) Blue already has a LOT of evasion effects and keywords. It doesn't need to keyword another.
2.) This is a really uninteractive mechanic. How can your opponent fight back? There's two ways: by getting rid of cards in your hand, and dealing direct damage or destroying this. Both of those aren't very easy to come by.
3.) This encourages players to hold cards in hand, which leads to unfun and boring gameplay. Forecast, Kamigawa's "Wisdom" mechanic, etc. all encourage similar gameplay and all have been considered failures for precisely this reason.
True. Those points are valid. Here's a new concept:
DeleteThe problem with cards with Islandhome, Islandwalk and similar abilities that care about your opponent's Islands is that, despite very flavorful, they aren't very practical mechanically and aren't very interesting to play with. Here's my version of that effect.
Serpent of the Deep 4UU
Creature - Serpent (common)
Lurk 2U (2U: Exile ~ lurking. You may pay 2U any time. If you do, return it to the battlefield. It can't be blocked this turn.)
4/6