We're back to the technological society of
Ekkremes for today's question. One problem that we've faced throughout this idea's evolution has been using mana costs as a theme. In my opinion, having more than one mechanic that has to do with mana costs is out of the question. My reasoning is simple: Magic is about what happens on the battlefield. Alternate costs, kickers, cost reduction, et cetera are not where the focus of a set belongs. (If you don't believe me, count the mechanics in the last several blocks that are fundamentally about mana cost!)
So Ekkremes badly needs technology-related mechanics that aren't about mana cost. What are some fun things to do on the battlefield that work with this theme? Can we do something with vehicles? Mecha? Golems? Transformers? Rube Goldberg devices? There's a major risk of high complexity in such ideas, so try to keep it simple and elegant. Help us out:
what goes on in the world of Ekkremes that's not about mana?
My take puts Operate on the Operators instead of the machines:
ReplyDeleteSpine Crafter R
Creature - Goblin Artificer (C)
Operate R (R, T: Operate target Artifact you control as long as this is tapped. You may choose not to untap this during your untap step. Operate as a sorcery.)
Artifact Creatures ~ is operating get +3/+0
1/1
Junk Animator 1UU
Creature - Salamander Artificer (R)
Operate 1U (1U, T: Operate target Artifact you control as long as this is tapped. You may choose not to untap this during your untap step. Operate as a sorcery.)
Artifacts ~ is operating are 5/5 Artifact Creatures.
1/2
If we use Harmony instead of Sunburst for the magic faction (e.g., Harmony Bolt 1R, Instant, ~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of colors among permanents you control), then both factions would be fighting over the twobrid artifacts-- one for their color, another for their artifact-ness.
I really like that take on operate, if only because having artifact creatures that get operated was in my books all along.
DeleteThe second operate looks fun. Especially if there is another mechanic for creating Goldberg contraptions, and decks that try to do that have all these trinkets with narrow abilities lying around.
DeleteDefinitely smart to try to look at this from the opposite direction. Inspired:
DeleteYet Another Rigger 3R
Creature-Goblin Rigger (unc)
T: Assemble a contraption (Exile a card in your graveyard under target artifact. That artifact gains all activated abilities (and triggered abilities?) of cards exiled under it this way.
2/2
Yo, I have a better template for that card:
Delete-----
Yet Another Rigger 3R
Creature-Goblin Rigger (unc)
T: Exile a card in your graveyard under target artifact. That artifact gains all activated abilities of cards exiled under it this way.
2/2
-----
Isn't that easier?
It is.
DeleteGoblin Rigger R
ReplyDeleteCreature - Goblin Rigger (Uncommon)
0/2
R, T: Assemble a contraption. (Sacrifice an artifact you control, then exile an artifact card from your graveyard. Put an artifact Contraption creature with power and toughness equal to the sacrificed card's converted mana cost and all abilities of the exiled card onto the battlefield.
And then I noticed this. "Great minds"
DeleteThis Mimeoplasm-esque implementation seems awesome to me. You get to use both "halves" of any given artifact and the feel comes through well. That said, despite not fueling itself as effectively, Jay's implementation makes it a lot easier to track what the contraption is since you need to differentiate cards in graveyard from exiled cards.
DeleteAlso, as much as I want "all abilities" to work, Characteristic Defining Abilities like that on Beast of Burden make it so that there's no way we can make things function intuitively (or maybe at all).
Please note that The Mimeoplasm is a rare, and it only uses its ability once! I don't think repeated use at uncommon is remotely feasible.
DeleteI don't think repeated use is a problem here as it requires you to sacrifice an artifact every time, in addition to the investment of playing a Rigger that is weak in combat. The text length is pretty long though.
Deletehttp://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2013/03/what-were-building-no-one-knows.html?showComment=1363141875445#c6344975031298459219
DeleteSteamflogger Boss wouldn't work rules-wise with this ability. Not one bit.
Why not? Does it require to be "Goblin Rigger assembles a contraption?"
DeleteBuild your own artifact:
ReplyDeleteThermosensor 1
Artifact - Sensor
Whenever a red spell or ability deals damage to a player, power attached actuator.
Vitatuator 1
Artifact - Actuator
Whenever ~ is powered, you gain 1 life.
Automate {W} (Attach to target sensor you control. Detach any other actuators attached to that sensor. Automate only as a sorcery.)
Another pair of examples:
Motion Sensor 3
Artifact - Sensor
Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, power attached actuator.
Macrotuator
Artifact - Actuator
Whenever ~ is powered, target creature gets +3/+3 and gains trample.
Automate {1G} (Attach to target sensor you control. Detach any other actuators attached to that sensor. Automate only as a sorcery.)
Elephantomaton 1
DeleteArtifact Creature - Elephant Actuator (Rare)
Trample
~ can't attack or block unless it's been powered this turn.
Automate {1} (Attach to target sensor you control. Detach any other actuators attached to that sensor. Automate only as a sorcery.)
4/4
Being able to pair "triggered" abilities with various triggers is neat. I'm not sure we want a ton of cards that do nothing on their own, but you could just add "5: Power CARDNAME" to the Actuators and/or "If no actuator is attached, [tiny effect]" to Actuators.
DeleteCan we make a more modular version? Perhaps:
Vitatuator 2
Artifact (cmn)
2/W, T: Gain 2 life.
Thermosensor 1
Artifact (cmn)
Whenever a red spell or ability deals damage to a player, you may untap target artifact.
Motion Sensor 3
Artifact (unc)
Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, you may untap target artifact.
Macrotuator 4
Artifact (rare)
2/G 2/G, T: Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until EOT.
If you wanted to get fancy and really reward players for using sensors to power their poly artifacts:
DeleteClockwork Computer 2
Artifact (unc)
~ doesn't untap during your untap step.
2, T: Draw a card.
Steam-Powered Orrery 1
Artifact (rare)
T: Look at the top card of your library. You may put it on the bottom.
Whenever ~ becomes untapped outside of your untap step, name a card type and then reveal the top card of your library. If it's the named card type, put it into your hand.
Personally, I really like the idea of artifact tokens. They have the nice advantage over other alternative resources (such as gold counters) in that they're non-parasitic.
ReplyDeleteJunk Merchant (common)
2R
Creature - Goblin Artificer
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, put a Scrap artifact token onto the battlefield.
Sacrifice an artifact: Target creature gets +1/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
2/1
Hoarding Cyborg (rare)
3U
Artifact Creature - Human Construct
CARDNAME's power and toughness are each equal to the number of artifacts you control.
{T}: Put a Scrap artifact token onto the battlefield.
*/*
This is one of the cleanest new ideas I've seen for technological stuff. Nice!
DeleteTo me, having generic artifact tokens feels a lot like the generic gold tokens we've been discussing from frontier. Gold tokens have the benefit of feeling a bit more top down, you're paying for things in gold, but they are both fairly bland.
DeleteEldrazi Spawn tokens were neat, they represented something novel, had multiple uses, and had lots of different ways to interact with them. Scrap tokens really don't have that, especially in terms of the interaction. Especially in an artifact heavy set, there's a premium placed on artifact removal. Unless you want a card that says "Destroy all token artifacts", your really not going to be able to use your removal on the scrap tokens themselves.
If you really wanted a "currency" for this, I'd recommend charge counters. They already have in game meaning, and they come in "bunches" that you lose all at once if the artifact dies:
Electrotog 1R
Creature-Atog
Remove a charge counter from an artifact you control: Electrotog gains +2/+2 until end of turn
1/2
Hoarding Cyborg (rare)
3U
Artifact Creature - Human Construct
CARDNAME's power and toughness are each equal to the number of charge counters on artifacts you control.
{T}: Add a charge counter to an artifact you control.
*/*
Scrap tokens already interact with all of these cards, and more:
Deletehttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=|[%22sacrifice%20an%20artifact%22]|[%22return%20an%20artifact%22]|[%22number%20of%20artifact%22]|[%22metalcraft%22]|[%22affinity%20for%20artifact%22]
The key difference between my approach and charge counters is that *every artifact card in the game* is fodder for stuff that wants to eat scrap. Ichor Wellspring? Spine of Ish Sah? Sacrifice away!
No, no. I get that there are lots of cards that care about artifacts. Scrap would be easy to build around.
DeleteMy problem is that it's hard for your opponents to interact with. With Eldrazi Spawn, the tokens die to all sorts of things. With scrap, the only way to cut down on it is Artifact removal. And while they could up the creature removal in Rise, it's awkward to make way better mass artifact removal in an artifact set.
One of the other things to think about here: how would this make Ekkremes different than Mirroden? Scars already had a strong "Artifact Sacrifice" theme and both blocks have really explored the "number of artifacts you control" stuff. And to be fair, original Mirroden also did quite a bit with charge counters. I think we really need to find a different angle for another Artifact block.
"Destroy target artifact with CMC 0" deals with scrap tokens in a non-parasitic way.
DeleteOr they could be 0/1 gnomes. But overall I think I agree with Wobbles.
DeleteI'm cleaning up/reposting this from an earlier thread. Hopefully this doesn't get a bit off tracks with a rigger discussion again:
ReplyDeleteWhat are the most popular tropes about robots?
You've got: giant mecha (gundam, power rangers, voltron), everyday objects coming to life (transformers, anything with a talking computer), and creatures of pure logic (data, terminator)
If we're going for an artifact set, those are the tropes that I think would be interesting to explore.
So how does Magic do that?
Ornithoper Prototype 3
Artifact Creature- Alpha Construct (C)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control a Beta, you may transform and combine them.
2/1
///
Ornothopitic Dreadnaught
Artifact Creature- Omega
Flying
Whenever Ornothopitic Dreadnaught deals damage, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Prototype Gearbox 3
Artifact- Beta
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control an Alpha, you may transform and combine them.
///
Artifact creature- Omega
t: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool
4/4
Volted Spear 2
Artifact- Alpha Equipment (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control a Beta Component, you may unattached Volted Spear, transform and combine them.
Equipped creature gains +1/+1 and first strike.
Equip 2
///
Lightning Engine
Artifact Creature- Omega
Double Strike
2: Lightning Engine gains +1/+0 until end of turn.
----------
So the idea is that in the world of Ekkremes, the artificers of the plane use their artifact magic to construct simple machines, but those machines are all potential components of much larger more devastating machines. By using both Innistrads DFC technology and BFM tech, we can create modular parts. You don't need to draft Half A with Half B, any combination of an Alpha and a Beta will form an Omega monster with elements of both of the original cards.
All of the backs will have to be creatures, with the right sides having power and toughness (and maybe some abilities) and the left just being boosts, the name and the card type.
----
NEW STUFF
I think it's important that this feels BIGGER than just equipping a creature. These creatures are going to take up two cards, and should be appropriately scary. This also makes these cards feel different than the way transform was used in Innistrad.
Finally, this solves the most of the other suggestions have the problem of not being easy to read. This is also just a perennial problem of Auras and Equipment modifying stats, but needing to be placed behind the creatures they modify. having them transform into "one card" means that you don't have to do math to figure out how big the creature is: it's printed right on the card. You want this ability to modify p/t, that's the core creature stat, but it needs to be done in a way that your not constantly adding the pieces together.
Just iterating…
DeleteOrnithoper Prototype 4
Artifact Creature-Alpha Construct (C)
Flying
2/2
///
Ornothopitic Dreadnaught
Artifact Creature-Omega
Flying
When ~ LTB, draw two cards.
Prototype Gearbox 3
Artifact-Beta (common)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. You may transform CARDNAME and a tapped Alpha you control, combining them into a single card.
///
(null)
(null)
Whenever ~ attacks, add 3 to your mana pool.
6/6
A helper mechanic to avoid card disadvantage:
DeleteSalvage (Until end of turn, if target omega dies, return one of its cards to the battlefield.)
I'm not sure if this ability should go on other creatures, omegas, or just be part of the rules for flip-BFM cards. It should definitely have a cost.
I don't love that it lets you choose which card is salvaged. Opponent's choice? At random?
Hmm. Here's a concern I'd not thought of before regarding the alpha flipside being the left half of the card and the right beta flipside being the right half: What's the art? H
Deleteow do you make two pieces of adjacent art seem interconnected without physically representing two modular halves of a single entity (left/right from front view or front/back from side view)?
And if we do the art the way that makes sense, how do we justify the way that one half is name/type/abilities and the other half is stats (and maybe more abilities)?
How does DM handle that?
Another possibility (warning: we are now leaving visual proximity of "the box")…
When you combine the two cards, instead of making a double-wide card, we could turn them to form a big card with the same aspect ratio. The Alpha represents the TOP half (with name, art and maybe type) while the BETA represents the BOTTOM half (with stats and abilities).
The problem with that being that all the gameplay stuff is defined on a single card. Maybe we skew the normal box so that the top half gets a few lines of rules text?
It actually works if you use full-art. Here's an approximation of two cards constructed together: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1b5Jt_AQElI/UVIN2c40QUI/AAAAAAAAGi0/3So7XsYD16U/s1600/Mecha.1.jpg
DeleteI've also been sketching even crazier ideas. For example, the back of each of these cards is split. Alphas with two left-halves and Betas with two right-halves. When you combine them, you choose which half of each card to line up and put together to form a single, normal-sized card (ignoring the two half cards hanging off each side).
How does that idea help or improve anything? I have NO idea.
I've posted about something like that before on the WotC forums, where you choose from two halves for each part.
DeleteWith your version, I like the top/bottom idea since it has more chance of the art linking up to form a variable combination robot. With the two halves version, there shouldn't be alpha parts and beta parts; each such parts card should halve one "top" half and "bottom" half.
@chops Part of the cost of these guys is losing both artifacts. But the upside is HUGE MONSTERS. You'd obviously want these in an artifact removal light-ish setting, where they aren't instantly shattered. Kind of like the way Rise of the Eldrazi had little removal for actual Eldrazi, or how Avacyn went light on the removal to enable Soulbond. That said:
DeleteRepair Shop 1WW
Enchantment (U)
Whenever an Omega creature dies, you may return an alpha or beta card from your graveyard to play at the beginning of the end step.
Would be a fine build around me uncommon. There might be other cards to return the parts in other colors, too. It's an area all of the colors have touched on.
@Jay I like it! I actually had a similar thought with these, that you could put text box between the two cards so that it would be more congruent. Granted, my version stacked the cards bottom to top to make a super tall robot. That way the "beta" halves show the legs (or jets or wheels) and the tops show the body of the machine. Having an opaque text box would also allow the cards to have a bit less of a "seam" like in your example.
I'm less clear on your "two halves" version. It seems like you'd be giving up a lot of card space for it, Kamagawa flip card style. I'd need to here more.
@chah Link?
In terms of "go big or go home", this is one of the most exciting directions we could take for the set. I'll do some thinking and maybe mock up a few ideas.
DeleteI also like Jay's Kiki-Jiki Riggers a lot. It's probably not enough to build a set around, but it'd be a fun inclusion even without the Rigger baggage.
ReplyDeleteHowever, one of the tricks of the Ekkremes is how to make an artifact set that doesn't feel like Mirroden, New Phyrexia or Esper. I'm not even sure that I have a top-down hook for the set besides Mechas!, at least not in the same way that I do for Frontier or Ankh-Theb.
Powered N (This enters the battlefield with N charge counters. When it is put into a graveyard, you may put its charge counters onto an artifact you control)
ReplyDeleteIt's Modular, but with charge counters. There are only two creatures in Gatherer that use charge counters, but plenty of artifacts. There's a lot that can be done with it though:
Powered Elf
G
Creature - Elf Artificer
Powered 2
T, remove a charge counter from ~: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
1/1
Simple Drone
1
Artifact Creature - Construct
Powered 1
~ gets +1/+1 for each charge counter on it.
0/0
Steam Mech Suit
3
Artifact - Equipment
Powered 3
Equipped creature gets +2/+2
Remove a charge counter from Steam Mech Suit: Equipped creature gains flying until end of turn.
Equip 2
If most, if not all, Powered cards have a use for charge counters built in, then it is a very modular mechanic, but the more you play together, the more linear it becomes, similar to Landfall
Powered could be a decent callback to Modular. It's very similar, but different enough to be interesting. If we did go that route, I would be very much against cards like Simple Drone because it's just an awkward Arcbound Worker.
DeleteI like the gameplay. The problem, as usual, is that it replaces +1/+1 counters on creatures.
DeleteI like powered. It also might have a role in creating Rube Goldberg machines. We've had artifact parts that untap other artifacts, but there could be artifacts that charge other artifacts.
Delete