Even as packed as Suvnica is going to be, there's still going to be a need for the occasional five card cycle. Ravnica block had leylines, hunted creatures, auras with ETB effects, eidelons and rusalkas, and RTR block had land enchants and primordials. The mini-challenge this weekend is to come up with a splashy five card cycle, tight or as loose as you like, in Rare that is interesting. Here's an idea I've had bouncing around my head for a few years.
What do you guys think? Enjoy the weekend, and come monday, we'll be looking at mechanics for two more guilds.
-zeff
Random thoughts:
ReplyDelete- It makes me think about the possibility that this set's backstory could be tied to Planeswalkers or Planeswalking somehow. After all, it does have a lot of denizens waking up one night on a different plane. Maybe they were brought there as a planeswalking experiment, or a spark-inducing experiment?
- If this were a real set, in a real pipeline, and some Planeswalker-oriented product or an expansion with a backstory tied to planeswalking like Time Spiral was coming up, I would say it should go in that set.
Otherwise, I don't think it's a huge problem to have a rare splashy cycle that's unrelated to the set theme.
- Trying to think back of rare spell cycles in recent sets: They have tried to create some connection between a splashy spell cycle and the setting, like the "Increasing" cycle in Dark Ascension, the Zenith cycle in Mirrodin Besieged. The "can't be countered" cycle doesn't have much connection to Ravnica, though, although at least they are multicolored.
- I wonder if these cards should be creatures rather than instants & sorceries. It might play better.
We actually dropped the planar kidnapping thread a little while ago - the caste/guild plane was more popular, and felt like it would inspire greater diversity between the guilds.
DeleteComrade's Gambit might as well target any walker.
DeleteIn a vacuum, yeah, but it breaks the cycle.
DeleteI like the cycle in a vacuum, but it seems rather strange for a set to have more cards that care about a specific card type than cards that are actually of that type. I think Suvnica would need a lot more planeswalkers than a normal set, and probably at rare as well as mythic, for this to work. And I also agree with Chah that these should be creatures, so that they have a use even if you don't control a planeswalker.
ReplyDeleteI don't really care for the creature idea, since it loses a lot of the flavor (I'm casting a spell that directly affects my ally). I agree that it's weird to lump them all in one set. This is the kind of cycle that could be spread out across a set (especially if we do large/large/small - it could be 2/2/1). They more or less have to be rare, which means these are all dead rares in drafts, unless you are super lucky in your packs.
DeleteI just wrote (and subsequently deleted) a bit explaining how this wants to be a "super-cycle." Heh.
DeleteMy cycle was sort of inspired by the Ultimatum cycle of Shards of Alara. The goal was a mono-colored cycle that scaled the more colors of mana you used. The basic structure of the cycle is:
ReplyDelete"Do something." Copy this spell if you spent at least three colors of mana to cast it. Copy this spell again if you spent five colors of mana to cast it. (You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Below is the text and mana cost of the "do somethings" for each color.
W: Exile up to two target creatures. Cost - 5W
U: Reveal the top five cards of your library. You may cast an instant or sorcery card revealed this way without paying its mana cost. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. Cost - 7U
B: Return target creature from a graveyard to the battlefield. Cost - 5B
R: Creatures you control have "Whenever this creature attacks, it deals 2 damage to target creature or player" until end of turn. Cost - 6R
G: Search your library for a creature card, put it on the battlefield, then shuffle your library. Cost - 7G
Definitely a mythic cycle.
Some names and renders. I ended up changing the red one; a little too swingy.
DeleteW: http://i.imgur.com/yuttoXY.jpg
U: http://i.imgur.com/YnVDeym.jpg
B: http://i.imgur.com/ZsEkAKt.jpg
R: http://i.imgur.com/HwKb0yo.jpg
G: http://i.imgur.com/CnXIwco.jpg
Cool. My only real beef with it is that guild sets want to encourage dedication to a guild, and this mechanic definitely doesn't. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it feels like it would be a lot more at home on Alara than Suv/Ravnica
DeleteI agree, but I don't think the mono-colored cycles of Ravnica really did that though; they were tied a bit more to the flavor of the world (e.g. Leylines). We have a lot of flavor for the guilds of Suvnica but not much else about the general environment and how it differs from Ravnica (unless I haven't been paying enough attention). I just went in the simplest direction with a multicolor set; a cycle that encourages multiple colors.
DeleteI don't know exactly what creature types or flavor Suvnica as a whole is going to push, but I'm a big fan of one-drops, and so a theme of rewarding players for playing one drops is a space that sounds like fun. A cycle of "Apprentice ___" creatures could exist in WUBRG or the ten pairs; but for now I'm trying out a cycle of creature "Masters" at rare.
ReplyDeleteBenevolent Master 1W
Creature - Monk
Whenever a creature with power 2 or less enters the battlefield under your control, gain 2 life.
2/2
Cryptic Master 3UU
Creature - Wizard
Whenever a creature you control with power 2 or less deals combat damage to an opponent, draw two cards.
2/2
Vengeful Master 1B
Creature - Knight
Whenever a creature you control with power 2 or less dies, put two +1/+1 counters on CARDNAME.
2/1
Bellowing Master 3RR
Creature - Warrior
Whenever a creature you control with power 2 or less attacks, CARDNAME deals 2 damage to the defending player.
3/3
Towering Master 3G
Creature - Treefolk
Reach
Creatures you control with power 2 or less have hexproof.
4/4
Are the power 2 or less creatures "citizens?"
DeleteAre they a lower caste?
Either one could work. I was picturing these creatures as something like a master in a guild of craftsmen, where there are lesser creatures that are under their wing. The way to reinforce that sort of guildliness would be to have a cycle of cards, like:
DeleteSparkmage Apprentice 1R (common)
Hammercraft Journeyman 2R (uncommon)
Damage dealt by ~ can't be prevented.
2/3
Bellowing Master 3RR (rare)
But that's probably too vague. The smarter thing to do with this flavor would probably be to make cycles within the "guilds" we have, if the color pairs turn out to be that. I would like to figure out some way to highlight or reward playing with small creatures, but I don't think I've cracked it yet.
Undercity Prowl 1B
ReplyDeleteInstant
Target creature gets -2/-2 UEOT.
If you control a multicolored creature, draw a card.
Garden Visit 1G
Instant
Target creature gets +2/+2 (+3/+3?) UEOT.
If you control a multicolored creature, draw a card.
Solarium Stroll 1W
Instant
Prevent all damage target creature would deal this turn.
If you control a multicolored creature, draw a card.
Canal Parade 1U
Instant
Target creature can't be bocked this turn.
If you control a multicolored creature, draw a card.
Ravine Charge 1R
Instant
~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
If you control a multicolored creature, draw a card.
The 'Cone' cycle fits the caste theme loosely, by emphasizing tiers of things.
ReplyDeleteCone of Flames
Bestial Menace or Incremental Growth
Incremental Blight
Cone of Thought 3UU
Target player draws three cards. Another target player draws two cards. Any target player draws a card.
Cone of Life 3WW
Target player triples his or her life. Another target player doubles his or her life. (And someone singles his or her life, which is dumb.)
Might need work.
Cone of Flight 3UU
DeleteTarget creature gains flying, flying, and flying. Another target creature gains flying, and flying. Target creature gains flying.
Cone of Light 3WW
Instant
Target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn. Another target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. A third target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
Cone of Really Bad Life Gain 3WW
DeleteCone of Crippling Disenchantment 3WW
Cone of Pathetic Milling 3UU
Cone of Ice 3UU
Tap three target creatures. They don't untap during their controller's next untap step. Two of them don't untap during the untap step after that. One doesn't untap during the untap step after that.
It is a shame that lifelink doesn't stack anymore.
DeleteCone of Light might actually work, but Incremental Blight probably needs reworking unless we do -1/-1 counters in the set. Cone of Thought could be made into a bad Ambition's Cost? Target player draws 3 loses 3, target player draws 2 loses 2, target player draws 1 loses 1.
It makes the cycle looser, but blue could potentially have: "Put target creature third from the top of its owner's library. Put another target creature second from the top of its owner's library. Put target creature on top of its owner's library", which is very strong but could work at rare.
Target player singles his or her life total is my new favorite Johnny toy.
DeleteCone of three different things - Red
Delete~ deals 3 to target creature, destroy two target artifacts, and one target creature can't block this turn. (This effect will give Development migraines. Migraines cannot be prevented and are not removed when this monstrosity changes zones.)
Discrimination is a big factor in caste life.
ReplyDeleteDeem Weak 1B
Aura
Enchant green or white creature
When ~ ETB, draw a card.
Enchanted creature gets -3/-3
Deem Boring R
Aura
Enchant white or blue creature
When ~ ETB, draw a card.
Enchanted creature can't block and must attack if able.
Deem Misguided G
Aura
Enchant blue or black creature
When ~ ETB, draw a card.
Enchanted creature loses all activated and triggered abilities.
Deem Dangerous 1W
Aura
Enchant black or red creature
When ~ ETB, draw a card.
Enchanted creature can't attack.
Deem Stupid 1U
Aura
Enchant red or green creature
When ~ ETB, draw a card.
Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
Discrimination is a big factor in caste life.
ReplyDeleteRobe of Austerity W
Aura
Enchant a creature with CMC 4+
Enchanted creature has protection from CMC 3-.
Robe of Ascension U
Aura
Enchant a creature with CMC 4+
Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 and has flying.
Robe of Power B
Aura
Enchant a creature with CMC 4+
Enchanted creature has intimidate.
Sacrifice a creature: Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 until EOT.
Robe of Brilliance R
Aura
Enchant a creature with CMC 4+
Whenever enchanted creature blocks or becomes blocked, ~ deals 2 damage to those creatures.
Robe of Purity G
Aura
Enchant a creature with CMC 4+
Enchanted creature gets +0/+2 and has hexproof.
Neither discrimination cycle feels especially rare.
DeleteProtection from creatures with lower converted mana cost sounds like a very caste-y mechanic to use somewhere. Maybe it doesn't need to be full protection, just damage prevention or a blocking restriction.
DeleteOops. I completely missed the rare requirement. My bad.
DeleteWe've been tossing around ideas about fate's role on Suvnica. What about a five-card cycle that involves making prophecies?
ReplyDeleteProphecy of Battle- W
Enchantment (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, name a creature card.
When then named creature attacks you, put a 1/1 white Soldier creature token onto the battlefield. Then return ~ to its owner's hand.
Prophecy of Plans- U
Enchantment (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, name an instant or sorcery card. When an opponent casts the named card, draw a card. Then return ~ to its owner's hand.
Prophecy of Doom- B
Enchantment (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, name a permanent card.
When the named card is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, that player discards a card. Then return ~ to its owner's hand.
Prophecy of Feuds- R
Enchantment (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, name a nonbasic land card.
When an opponent plays the named card, ~ deals 3 damage to that opponent. Then return ~ to its owner's hand.
Prophecy of Arrival- G
Enchantment (Rare)
When ~ enters the battlefield, name a creature card.
When the named card enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, you gain 4 life. Then return ~ to its owner's hand.
I like these because they create interesting choices and tend to discourage 4-ofs in deck construction. They should play like conditional, powered-down Meddling Mages. I'm not at all sure about the power level, though.
Cool.
DeleteThere could also be prophecies about something other than specific cards played, such as the amount of life lost, number of cards put into grave, etc.
I like the choice+trigger a lot. The effects are too tame to warrant the guessing game, and getting them back again just sounds cumbersome.
DeleteI agree-- looking at it again, the return-to-hand trigger is a bit clunky. How about replacing that phrase with "Then you may name a different [type] card"? That does more or less the same thing, except that you don't have to re-cast the enchantment, so the power level goes up a bit.
DeleteSet three cycle: I must admit I wasn't really paying too much attention to the final choice of how the block would be designed, and the guilds in each, but if we're going L-L-S then set three probably needs buildarounds.
ReplyDeleteGaze into Life 2W
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you cast a multicolored white spell, you gain 1 life for each of its colors.
Gaze into Spirit 2U
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you cast a multicolored blue spell, target player puts two cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard for each of its colors.
Gaze into Darkness 2B
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you cast a multicolored black spell, target player loses 1 life for each of its colors.
Gaze into Triumph 2R
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you cast a multicolored red spell, discard a card, then draw a card for each of its colors.
Gaze into Within 2G
Enchantment (R)
Whenever you cast a multicolored green spell, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature for each of that spell's colors.
(Hell it could be monocolored spells, but that depends on the needs of the format. If we're still considering Tesla to be the set after Survica, that might be a good idea I suppose.)
Requiring "same color" and "multicolor" seems too restrictive. I would delete one requirement or the other-- the cycle remains interesting either way.
DeleteAbsolute Territory 2G
ReplyDeleteEnchantment
All lands have "2:This becomes a 3/3 creature until end of turn. It's still a land."
Absolute Rage 1R
Enchantment
All creatures have haste and attack each turn if able.
Absolute Effervescence 3U
Enchantment
All creatures have "when this becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it."
Absolute Pain 4B
Enchantment
All spells have, "as an additional cost to cast this, pay 2 life."
Absolute Faith W
Enchantment
All artifacts have, "At the beginning of your upkeep, pay 1 or sacrifice this."
Absolute Territory breaks the cycle by being totally optional. I'd make it just "All lands are 1/1 creatures that are still lands", which is pretty reasonable at 2G. Otherwise, I like these.
DeleteThat already exists: it's Living Plane, which costs 2GG and is on the reserved list.
Delete