Not a developer buuuuuuuuut yeah, "obscenely broken" seems accurate.
Poisoned Lotus is busted in half. The Legendary tag doesn't do much, since you can sac one before playing the next. Modern U/R storm kills with Grapeshot, so the emblems do nothing. Unless you're already almost dead against Infect, this is an actual Black Lotus that you can play four of!
All-In Lotus is less broken because you can still die to Gut Shot, Lightning Bolt, or Galvanic Blast. Still broken, though.
Win-Condition Lotus is a lot safer, since storm usually wants to draw cards. But there's probably some weird legacy Bomberman deck that can abuse it.
I'm not play design, but yeah. Ridiculously broken for sure.
All-In Lotus sounds dangerous, but is probably less restrictive than Lion's Eye Diamond. Since it sets you to 1 instead of doing a flat amount of damage, it's always usable and there's no harm in using several of them. This reminds me of the old debate of how much phyrexian mana you'd be willing to pay for an ancestral recall. Is this a broken card?
I don't remember if a threshold was agreed upon. 18 life might be too much, but what about 10?
Poisoned Lotus is just Black Lotus #2-5 except fair decks can't play it. Which won't be a problem because there won't be any fair decks left.
Win-Condition Lotus is slightly more restrictive, but not so bad. It's similar to Lion's Eye Diamond in that you can just use it right as you go off (especially since the exile clause isn't a cost).
The idea of Black Lotus is inherently busted, and I think you'd have to throw the kitchen sink at it to make it bad:
Quack Lotus 0 Artifact T, Sacrifice Quack Lotus: Add 3 mana of any one color. This mana can only be used to cast Wraith cards or spells that begin with the letter Q. You lose 15 life and gain 8 poison counters. Your opponent draws 8 cards and can cast spells this turn as if they had flash. Until end of turn, you lose mana between when you lose priority in addition to when steps and phases end. Ante the top card of your library.
I think it’s doable. One of these is probably fine (maybe not):
Attempt 1 Fixed Lotus 0 Sacrifice ~: Add 3 mana of any one color. This mana can’t be used to cast spells.
Attempt 2 Fixed Lotus 0 Sacrifice ~: Add 3 mana of any one color. Spend this mana only to pay cumulative upkeep costs.
Attempt 3 Fixed Lotus 0 Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color. Activate this ability only if you have 1 life.
Attempt 4 Fixed Lotus 0 Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color. Activate this ability only if each opponent controls more creatures and lands than you and has more cards in hand than you.
Attempts 2-4 are all sort of what I meant by 'throw the kitchen sink at it', especially #4. Yeah, you can add ridiculously specific/niche conditions to make it bad, and there are basically endless ways to do that (that's what Quack Lotus was supposed to show).
I' guess #1 is still broken. I'm sure someone smarter than me could figure it out
Well, it’d certainly go infinite, but it’s still a three card combo since you need to combine it with *insert mana sink here* so it might not be THAT bad?
Wobbles, you'd still need an additional mana source to cast the infinite Spellbombs, since you can't do it with Lotus 1 mana. Chromatic Sphere + land would do it. Easier in Vintage with Oath to mill most of your deck, though still not that hard to assemble in Legacy (you get four LED instead of one to get more hits as well).
The thought of casting multiple Lotus 4 into Balance makes me giddy.
1. useless jank (no Force of Will for you!) 2. obscenely broken (3 turn clock = who cares) 3. useless jank (useless unless you drew exactly your combo. On the other hand, Laboratory Maniac)
This one... might actually be okay? It's still a 0 mana cantrip, but it does nothing except build up storm count, and if you're playing any remotely fair strategy it's just a dead draw in the late game. Of course, "card that only benefits the fast combo strategy" is probably something Play Design would want to kill on principle.
Quiet Lotus 0 Artifact When Quiet Lotus enters the battlefield, tap it and skip your next turn. If it’s your turn, end the turn. T: Add three mana of any one color. Sacrifice Quiet Lotus.
Probably left too many holes for this to be exploited with, but letting you sac it to cast an instant in response to the triggers seems more cute than broken.
Lotus Poltice 0 Artifact R As an additional cost to cast this, return a creature you control to its owner's hand. T, sacrifice Lotus Poltice: Add 3 mana of any color. This mana can only be spent to cast creatures with the same name as the creature returned to cast Lotus Poltice.
Not a developer buuuuuuuuut yeah, "obscenely broken" seems accurate.
ReplyDeletePoisoned Lotus is busted in half. The Legendary tag doesn't do much, since you can sac one before playing the next. Modern U/R storm kills with Grapeshot, so the emblems do nothing. Unless you're already almost dead against Infect, this is an actual Black Lotus that you can play four of!
All-In Lotus is less broken because you can still die to Gut Shot, Lightning Bolt, or Galvanic Blast. Still broken, though.
Win-Condition Lotus is a lot safer, since storm usually wants to draw cards. But there's probably some weird legacy Bomberman deck that can abuse it.
Or just Turn 1 Lab Maniac seems pretty good.
DeleteAs I was making it, I was thinking "garbage but for Lab Maniac."
Delete"You gain an emblem that says, whenever you cast a spell, you get a poison counter."
DeleteI'm not play design, but yeah. Ridiculously broken for sure.
ReplyDeleteAll-In Lotus sounds dangerous, but is probably less restrictive than Lion's Eye Diamond. Since it sets you to 1 instead of doing a flat amount of damage, it's always usable and there's no harm in using several of them. This reminds me of the old debate of how much phyrexian mana you'd be willing to pay for an ancestral recall. Is this a broken card?
{UP}{UP}{UP}{UP}{UP}{UP}{UP}{UP}{UP}
Instant
Draw 3 cards.
I don't remember if a threshold was agreed upon. 18 life might be too much, but what about 10?
Poisoned Lotus is just Black Lotus #2-5 except fair decks can't play it. Which won't be a problem because there won't be any fair decks left.
Win-Condition Lotus is slightly more restrictive, but not so bad. It's similar to Lion's Eye Diamond in that you can just use it right as you go off (especially since the exile clause isn't a cost).
The idea of Black Lotus is inherently busted, and I think you'd have to throw the kitchen sink at it to make it bad:
Quack Lotus
0
Artifact
T, Sacrifice Quack Lotus: Add 3 mana of any one color. This mana can only be used to cast Wraith cards or spells that begin with the letter Q. You lose 15 life and gain 8 poison counters. Your opponent draws 8 cards and can cast spells this turn as if they had flash. Until end of turn, you lose mana between when you lose priority in addition to when steps and phases end. Ante the top card of your library.
There, that shouldn't be too dangerous.
I think it’s doable. One of these is probably fine (maybe not):
DeleteAttempt 1 Fixed Lotus
0
Sacrifice ~: Add 3 mana of any one color. This mana can’t be used to cast spells.
Attempt 2 Fixed Lotus
0
Sacrifice ~: Add 3 mana of any one color. Spend this mana only to pay cumulative upkeep costs.
Attempt 3 Fixed Lotus
0
Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color. Activate this ability only if you have 1 life.
Attempt 4 Fixed Lotus
0
Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color. Activate this ability only if each opponent controls more creatures and lands than you and has more cards in hand than you.
Attempts 2-4 are all sort of what I meant by 'throw the kitchen sink at it', especially #4. Yeah, you can add ridiculously specific/niche conditions to make it bad, and there are basically endless ways to do that (that's what Quack Lotus was supposed to show).
DeleteI' guess #1 is still broken. I'm sure someone smarter than me could figure it out
Quack Lotus is the best design I've ever seen.
Delete#1 would be bah-roken with Auriok Salvagers.
DeleteWell, it’d certainly go infinite, but it’s still a three card combo since you need to combine it with *insert mana sink here* so it might not be THAT bad?
DeleteBomberman is kinda a legacy deck already. Because the combo nets mana, any spellbomb style artifact becomes a win condition sense you draw your deck.
DeleteWobbles, you'd still need an additional mana source to cast the infinite Spellbombs, since you can't do it with Lotus 1 mana. Chromatic Sphere + land would do it. Easier in Vintage with Oath to mill most of your deck, though still not that hard to assemble in Legacy (you get four LED instead of one to get more hits as well).
DeleteThe thought of casting multiple Lotus 4 into Balance makes me giddy.
Lotus Lotus {0}
ReplyDeleteArtifact (mythic)
{T}: Add three mana of any one color. Spend this mana only to cast Lotus spells.
(That sacrifices. And has subtype lotus.)
DeleteFinally, Lotus Path Djinn is vintage playable.
DeleteThe Only Vaguely Fair Lotus {4}
ReplyDelete{T}, Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color.
I could see CMC 3, arguably.
DeletePentad Prism already has the potential of being 2 'lotus' mana for 2. I'd say 3 for 3 is fair as well, maybe. As-is this is just bad Thran Dynamo.
DeleteRosewater once designed this card for a custom invitational format. It was VERY good
DeleteGilded Lotus and Lotus Vale not fair enough?
Delete1. useless jank (no Force of Will for you!)
ReplyDelete2. obscenely broken (3 turn clock = who cares)
3. useless jank (useless unless you drew exactly your combo. On the other hand, Laboratory Maniac)
Punisher Lotus {0}
ReplyDeleteArtifact
{T}, sacrifice ~: any opponent may have you draw a card. If no-one does, add three mana of any colour.
This one... might actually be okay? It's still a 0 mana cantrip, but it does nothing except build up storm count, and if you're playing any remotely fair strategy it's just a dead draw in the late game. Of course, "card that only benefits the fast combo strategy" is probably something Play Design would want to kill on principle.
DeleteI like the idea of a Legendary Lotus:
ReplyDeleteLegendary Lotus 0
Legendary Artifact
T, Sacrifice Legendary Lotus: The next spell you cast this turn costs 3 less to cast.
Howling Lotus 0
ReplyDeleteT, Sacrifice ~: Each player adds three mana of any one color.
Seems insane, right? If your opponent isn't playing instants it's just Black Lotus?
DeleteIt's certainly a way to make sure everybody starts playing instants! (Or Raff!)
DeleteSpeaking of, we certainly can do this now, right?
DeleteCity of Plenty
Land
T: Each player adds one mana of any color.
Rainbow Lotus 0
DeleteT, Exile ~: Add three of any color, return ~ to the battlefield under target opponents control.
R Stech, I fully expect to see a design like that in Battleborn.
DeleteAlso, I can't believe Rainbow Vale is on the reserve list.
Quiet Lotus 0
ReplyDeleteArtifact
When Quiet Lotus enters the battlefield, tap it and skip your next turn. If it’s your turn, end the turn.
T: Add three mana of any one color. Sacrifice Quiet Lotus.
Probably left too many holes for this to be exploited with, but letting you sac it to cast an instant in response to the triggers seems more cute than broken.
The worst thing I could find is a Turn 1 Fact or Fiction or Collected Company, either of which at the cost of two cards and a full turn seem okay-ish.
DeleteOn Turn 2 with two lands you could Teferi for good, or Through The Breach Protean Hulk or Worldspine Wurm, but that's not too far off from anything Footsteps of the Goryo could do.
It's good with stifle, sundial, etc. But yeah, "I get Lotus, you get Time Stop" isn't the best deal ever.
DeleteThis wants maindeck Let mine of Anticipation to combo off turn zero.
DeleteAny particular reason the sac isn't a cost?
Leyline. Stupid phone auto correct.
DeleteMaybe?
ReplyDeletePolitical Lotus 0
Artifact
T, Sacrifice ~: Target opponent adds three mana of any one color.
Nice.
DeleteLotus Poltice 0
ReplyDeleteArtifact R
As an additional cost to cast this, return a creature you control to its owner's hand.
T, sacrifice Lotus Poltice: Add 3 mana of any color. This mana can only be spent to cast creatures with the same name as the creature returned to cast Lotus Poltice.