wording is kinda awkward since I know that magic rules say I'm not required to find all of the copies of the card if I don't want to but most players don't so it kind of has hidden modes. If they made a ramp spell with cycling that would be boss. But every spell gets 3x better with cycling :-) It could have cycling: sacrifice a land like horizon canopy I guess to be more interesting.
Yeah, I was torn between the shortest wording and the wording that makes it clear to less rules-savvy players that you don't actually have to find all the blooms still in your deck if you don't want to. I went with the shortest method because I can't imagine any constructed decks ever choosing not to take full advantage of the thinning.
or maybe something like "If a card named THIS is in your graveyard, THIS has the ability..." something like cycling in this case but it could get more complicated.
Redundant Cycling is a neat looking anti-cycling mechanic. Regular cycling seems to show up more on expensive spells, but Redundant Cycling probably works best on Rampant Growth/Mana Leak/Grizzly Bear types of cards. It would be a good option for a one-set block like ROE or AVR.
You could give it a "Miracle Mode" where if it's the first card you draw in a turn, you can reveal then cycle it. It's less powerful than regular cycling, the effect is similar to singular bloom, and it uses the existing miracle framework.
@HavelockV I thought that was actually one of the neatest parts of Jay's design. By including this ability on a Rampant Growth, you're already searching the library for the land. That's pretty clever!
@James It's funny, Alara and Onslaught both used "late-game" cards with cycling in order to help players fix their mana in the early game. That's the expensive spell side. But when cycling was originally introduced, it was put on mostly early game cards (Wild Dogs, Swat, Miscalculation). Redundant Cycling is actually more of a return to cycling's roots than "anti-cycling".
@vanvelding That'd be another interesting cycling variant:
Snap Decision (You may discard this card if it's the first card you drew this turn. If you do, draw a card.)
Of course, the problem with this is that it's super awkward in multiples. "No, I don't want this Rampant Growth." *Draws* "Oh, gee, topdecked another Snap Decision card, but now it's the second card I've drawn this turn!" That's not the end of the world, but it's worse that cycling into a cycler.
Edge of Autumn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=126132) looks like it's going for a similar use case. I like this version too.
Although, you could try a different approach: Magic Beans 1 Artifact G, T, Sacrifice Magic Beans: Search your library for up to four cards named Magic Beans and/or Forest. Put one onto the battlefield tapped and rest into your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.
By making it a permanent, you can put all the cards you're searching for into a big pile and keep the one you want. It allows someone to dump 12 forests into their graveyard for 1GGGG over four turns, which might be broken, but I can't think of how.
Cool Card Design of the Day
wording is kinda awkward since I know that magic rules say I'm not required to find all of the copies of the card if I don't want to but most players don't so it kind of has hidden modes. If they made a ramp spell with cycling that would be boss. But every spell gets 3x better with cycling :-) It could have cycling: sacrifice a land like horizon canopy I guess to be more interesting.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was torn between the shortest wording and the wording that makes it clear to less rules-savvy players that you don't actually have to find all the blooms still in your deck if you don't want to. I went with the shortest method because I can't imagine any constructed decks ever choosing not to take full advantage of the thinning.
DeleteThat confusion alone may justify moving it to uncommon. The confusion won't come up frequently in limited, but it still can.
DeleteSearch your library for any number of cards named ~ and exile them. Then shuffle your library.
DeleteA Rampant Growth with "cycling - sacrifice a land" exists: Edge of Autumn. It is indeed very good.
DeleteBut yes, axx1e's wording is the way to do it. That's nicer too so that if you do want to keep some of them around for some reason, you can.
or maybe something like "If a card named THIS is in your graveyard, THIS has the ability..." something like cycling in this case but it could get more complicated.
ReplyDeleteI like this version best. Searching libraries is a pretty slow activity.
DeleteI also prefer this approach. Exiling additional copies from your library looks like such a downside to new players.
DeleteI think that could be a really neat ability:
DeleteRedundant Cycling (Discard this card: Draw a card. Activate this ability only if you have you have a card named ~ your graveyard)
Redundant Cycling is a neat looking anti-cycling mechanic. Regular cycling seems to show up more on expensive spells, but Redundant Cycling probably works best on Rampant Growth/Mana Leak/Grizzly Bear types of cards. It would be a good option for a one-set block like ROE or AVR.
DeleteYou could give it a "Miracle Mode" where if it's the first card you draw in a turn, you can reveal then cycle it. It's less powerful than regular cycling, the effect is similar to singular bloom, and it uses the existing miracle framework.
Delete@HavelockV I thought that was actually one of the neatest parts of Jay's design. By including this ability on a Rampant Growth, you're already searching the library for the land. That's pretty clever!
Delete@James It's funny, Alara and Onslaught both used "late-game" cards with cycling in order to help players fix their mana in the early game. That's the expensive spell side. But when cycling was originally introduced, it was put on mostly early game cards (Wild Dogs, Swat, Miscalculation). Redundant Cycling is actually more of a return to cycling's roots than "anti-cycling".
@vanvelding That'd be another interesting cycling variant:
Snap Decision (You may discard this card if it's the first card you drew this turn. If you do, draw a card.)
Of course, the problem with this is that it's super awkward in multiples. "No, I don't want this Rampant Growth." *Draws* "Oh, gee, topdecked another Snap Decision card, but now it's the second card I've drawn this turn!" That's not the end of the world, but it's worse that cycling into a cycler.
Edge of Autumn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=126132) looks like it's going for a similar use case. I like this version too.
ReplyDeleteNice catch!
DeleteYup.
DeleteAlthough, you could try a different approach:
ReplyDeleteMagic Beans
1
Artifact
G, T, Sacrifice Magic Beans: Search your library for up to four cards named Magic Beans and/or Forest. Put one onto the battlefield tapped and rest into your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.
By making it a permanent, you can put all the cards you're searching for into a big pile and keep the one you want. It allows someone to dump 12 forests into their graveyard for 1GGGG over four turns, which might be broken, but I can't think of how.
I enjoyed your thinking for today's design, Jay.
ReplyDelete