As an experienced player, something funny happened - my brain immediately identified this as looking very similar to an alternate cost, so that was the first thing I thought of.
A little more thought and I guessed that this was probably a kicker-alike.
I assume it's a Goblin Piker that you can make a mini-spark elemental for R. Like dash, but sacrificed. Not a high pick, but if you need two-drops to pick up equipment, or creatures in your graveyard to fuel another mechanic, could be potentially useful.
What's gained with this template over "R: Haste" which is more in line with normal syntax and actually the way they used to write some activated abilities before templating became a thing?
It is, but there's some reason behind having this discussion. Jay didn't fully explain his intent with this design, but I'm going to try my take on it.
In the world of evergreen keywords, haste is a little strange in that the creature with it is a virtual vanilla. That's fine most of the time. A goblin Piker with haste is really good, a goblin piker without it is a goblin piker.
If you want something in between, where on turn 2 it's a piker but later it has slightly more utility, you have two options here: "R: ~ gains haste until end of turn," or "When ~ etb, you may pay R. If you do, ~ gains haste until end of turn" (In a set with kicker, this can be somewhat shorthanded, but not much.)
That's a lot of rules text for a virtual vanilla. The activated version has an activated ability that only matters at a single moment in the game, and the triggered version is just wordy. The elegance and simplicity of being virtually vanilla is lost.
So the question is can we shorthand it? I say no. Magic syntax can be alien to newer players at some points, but having to write out the full text is much better imo than shoehorning "Haste R" into the set of rules we have now. Magic used to shorthand like that, and even when it comes to haste, where it can only mean one logical thing, it's not worth the confusion and inconsistency.
In the same we can have different variations of a single keyword depending on context or variables, another option is to update haste so that when it has a mana cost, it means "You may pay [cost] as this ETB, if you do, it gains haste until EOT."
We'd have to actually write out that reminder text for a few years, but once players are familiar with that, we could literally just write Haste R on cards.
It really doesn't work on a single other keyword. The magic is in the virtual vanilla flavoring, where it just doesn't matter how you interpret it as long as you get the gist.
(Can't be countered) would also work IF it had a name.
Not that I agree with the change in its current form, but mental exercises like this are a fascinating.
Has anyone noticed the new reminder text from awaken:
Awaken n - x (If you paid x to cast this...)
They felt comfortable eliminating the phrase "you may cast this for it's awaken cost. If you do..." It's a step in the right direction that came (I can only imagine) from a similar, less ambitious thought process.
I could see the argument for flash as well, but that's even wonkier in some respects, since instead of the variants being activated or triggered abilities that only happen once, it's activated ability from hand or alternative casting cost.
If we went with the proposed wording for Haste, I would 100% expect it to be an activated ability from hand or alternate casting cost rather than an triggered-ETB ability or OTB-activated ability.
Which pushes me even further into the "this is a bad idea" camp. What kind of ability it is and where it's happening absolutely matter, and if it's not intuitive to figure that out, even if the card itself is agnostic about it, it shouldn't be done.
Cool Card Design of the Day
Kicker R, if you paid the kicker cost Meditator gains haste?
ReplyDeleteAlternately could be R: gains haste until end of turn; they are similar but not the same...
Exactly.
DeleteAs an experienced player, something funny happened - my brain immediately identified this as looking very similar to an alternate cost, so that was the first thing I thought of.
ReplyDeleteA little more thought and I guessed that this was probably a kicker-alike.
So you pay {R} instead of {1}{R} and then you get...?
DeleteI have no idea - I just identified it as such immediately, before thinking about it and realizing that was silly.
DeleteThat's what my mind went to first as well.
DeleteI suppose it looks very similar to dash.
DeleteI assume it's a Goblin Piker that you can make a mini-spark elemental for R. Like dash, but sacrificed. Not a high pick, but if you need two-drops to pick up equipment, or creatures in your graveyard to fuel another mechanic, could be potentially useful.
ReplyDeleteYou get sacrificed from "Haste {R}"?
DeleteWhat's gained with this template over "R: Haste" which is more in line with normal syntax and actually the way they used to write some activated abilities before templating became a thing?
ReplyDelete"R: Haste" isn't valid Magic text. It would have to be "R: CARDNAME gains haste until EOT."
Delete"Haste R" isn't currently valid either, but I'm suggesting it could be.
It's not, but once upon a time, it would have been.
DeleteSimpler times.
DeleteMuch simpler. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=202494
Deletehttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201230
This seems like a step back towards alpha words, which is, from my point of view, a step in the wrong direction.
DeleteIt is, but there's some reason behind having this discussion. Jay didn't fully explain his intent with this design, but I'm going to try my take on it.
DeleteIn the world of evergreen keywords, haste is a little strange in that the creature with it is a virtual vanilla. That's fine most of the time. A goblin Piker with haste is really good, a goblin piker without it is a goblin piker.
If you want something in between, where on turn 2 it's a piker but later it has slightly more utility, you have two options here: "R: ~ gains haste until end of turn," or "When ~ etb, you may pay R. If you do, ~ gains haste until end of turn" (In a set with kicker, this can be somewhat shorthanded, but not much.)
That's a lot of rules text for a virtual vanilla. The activated version has an activated ability that only matters at a single moment in the game, and the triggered version is just wordy. The elegance and simplicity of being virtually vanilla is lost.
So the question is can we shorthand it? I say no. Magic syntax can be alien to newer players at some points, but having to write out the full text is much better imo than shoehorning "Haste R" into the set of rules we have now. Magic used to shorthand like that, and even when it comes to haste, where it can only mean one logical thing, it's not worth the confusion and inconsistency.
Well said.
DeleteIn the same we can have different variations of a single keyword depending on context or variables, another option is to update haste so that when it has a mana cost, it means "You may pay [cost] as this ETB, if you do, it gains haste until EOT."
We'd have to actually write out that reminder text for a few years, but once players are familiar with that, we could literally just write Haste R on cards.
The problem with this is that "Haste {R}" makes sense, but "First strike {W}" is ambiguous.
ReplyDeleteTrivia: Back in the mid-90s, I had a Revised copy of Blessing and thought the effect was permanent (what an awesome card, right?)
It really doesn't work on a single other keyword. The magic is in the virtual vanilla flavoring, where it just doesn't matter how you interpret it as long as you get the gist.
DeleteFlash?
Delete(Can't be countered) would also work IF it had a name.
DeleteNot that I agree with the change in its current form, but mental exercises like this are a fascinating.
Has anyone noticed the new reminder text from awaken:
Awaken n - x (If you paid x to cast this...)
They felt comfortable eliminating the phrase "you may cast this for it's awaken cost. If you do..." It's a step in the right direction that came (I can only imagine) from a similar, less ambitious thought process.
I could see the argument for flash as well, but that's even wonkier in some respects, since instead of the variants being activated or triggered abilities that only happen once, it's activated ability from hand or alternative casting cost.
DeleteNote that I'm not a fan of this idea in the first place, but if we're doing it for haste I could see us also doing it for flash.
DeleteIf we went with the proposed wording for Haste, I would 100% expect it to be an activated ability from hand or alternate casting cost rather than an triggered-ETB ability or OTB-activated ability.
DeleteWhich pushes me even further into the "this is a bad idea" camp. What kind of ability it is and where it's happening absolutely matter, and if it's not intuitive to figure that out, even if the card itself is agnostic about it, it shouldn't be done.
DeleteFlash is a very good call.
DeleteThen I assume the reminder text would be closer to kicker.
Flash U (You may cast ~ as if it had flash for U more.)
But that means Haste R doesn't work for resurrected creatures, and now suddenly the exact implementation does matter. Now I'm convinced.
Good discussion!