This fortnight, Zeno Rage is going to take lead on this challenge:
Design a cycle of mythic rare legendary creatures to be the marquee cards for a new launch of Commander decks.
Zeno Rage's first submission is due 1/2. I'll review it 1/3.
Zeno Rage's last submission is due 1/10. I'll review that 1/11.
Hopefully.
Zeno Rage is strongly encouraged to solicit ideas and feedback from the rest of the artisans, and the community is strongly encouraged to help Zeno Rage as much as you are able.
The biggest question is, what colors should the cycle be? Given that wedges, shards, mono, and enemy-color commanders have already been done, ally-color commanders seems like the obvious choice. Of course, we just had two cycles of ally-color dragon legends, but Commander can presumably mine different space. (Dragonlord Kolaghan is not the best for EDH anyway...)
ReplyDeleteAlly colors would be the easiest to do. I'd like to try and explore some of the other options first, specifically the "other"choice that Mark Rosewater mentioned in his article about Commander 2015. I'm not sure, but I think those ideas involved less of a coherent color combination for the decks and were focused on some other things, but I'm not sure what.
DeleteIf ally colors, let's get some more hybrid commanders out there.
DeleteI believe the color identity rules make hybrid commanders a bit pointless.
Delete+1 for hybrid commanders. If the color-identity rules get in the way... well, let's just say that a Commander product is a good opportunity to change them.
DeleteI'd also be interested in seeing what a Commander-only product could do with tribal. It's a natural combination since both tribal and Commander tend to appeal to Timmy, and picking tribes is a nice way to do a cycle without tying it directly to color combinations.
DeleteSo thinking about commanders who change the deck size got me to thinking. If Wizards were to make a commander product with one of the commanders changing the deck size to 150, that means they would have to put an extra 50 cards in that product. If they had to print extra cards, would they still print 5 decks? Are 5 commander decks an automatic thing, or can that be changed for the need of the product.
DeleteOne thing I'd like to do is a colorless commander. Eith all the colorless going around, it would be reasonable for WotC to make a colorless commander product. Commander players love deckbuilding challenges, and WotC likes to give the players the tools they need. I'm sure that many commander players would buy a deck like this, as they are often useing colorless cards to fill in holes that their colors have.
So I'm thinking of a line up like this:
1 colorless legendary
2 two color legendaries
1 mono color legendary
Or
1 colorless legendary
1 three color legendary
2 mono color legendaries
This will most likely change as I recieve feedback.
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@zefferal and Ipaulsen: I'm not to terribly interested in doing hybrid, especially since I want to tackle a colorless commander.
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@Ipaulsen: What tribes would be good to do? I don't want to do the obvious ones, like elves, goblins, and zombies. I would like to give players more diversity.
On the other hand, if I were to go with the Tag Team mechanic, it would be more logical to do the more popular tribes. That way you would have more options for Tag Team targets.
Increasing the size of the deck is a no-go for me! Shuffling 100 cards is tough enough already, and playing a lot of commander we have shifted away from tutors for that exact reason.
DeleteI think you need to identify what in a game of Comander makes it go "faster" and more "interactive" and try to find mechanics fitting that.
I like the angle of "how can we make this experience better" as opposed to merely "different."
DeleteYou two make a good point. I'm mostly just thinking of design space that's open and available, instead of what the game needs. Does commander need legendary creatures that affect deck building options? Probably not, at least not right now. Will Wizards ever print deck building option commanders? Probably, just not the way I proposed (seriously, switching the commander product from 5 decks to 4, with each deck having 150 cards, with half the decks not even being able to use the extra cards seems a little ridiculous.) If anything, Devin's idea of each deck having three "bonus" cards is probably the closest to printable.
DeleteSo I've decided on Plan B(I always have a backup plan!) I will be doing the Tag Team mechanic proposed by Ipaulsen, with the decks themselves having a tribal focus instead of a color focus.
P.S. For anyone interested in what I had for the deck variant commanders, here's a link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z05f8lwpwk5doj5/Commanders.mse-set?dl=0
As a side point, I do think that there's room for Wizards to break from the 5-decks a year to more incomplete cycles. Not everything needs to be a 5-item cycle.
DeleteThe second question is what is the new twist on commander?
ReplyDelete2013 we saw Command zone Interactions.
2014 we saw Planeswalker commanders.
2015 we saw Experience counters.
I need some help to come up with a good twist of my own. The twist might help define the deck colors.
An idea off the top of my head: Swapable commanders. Legendary creatures with
DeleteCost: Target creature with the same color ID as this card becomes your commander permanently. Activate only as sorcery and while ~ is in the command zone. (The new commander continues to cost 2 more for each time you have previously cast ~). Or something similar.
The only problem I have is the same color id clause. One of the big selling points of pre made decks is that they can be taken right out of the box and played with each other. If we had this implementation of swappable commanders, we would either have to have all of our commanders have the same color in order for playability right outside the box, or have them all be different color identities and unable to use the key twist. Plus no one likes having their commander taken.
DeleteI do understand why the same color identity clause is needed. So you can still play the commander and play your commander deck without it all of a sudden becoming an illegal deck. Is there any we could get around these points?
Would it be possible to build a few creatures with abilities that affect deck-building options?
DeletePossible options -
UBR Legend
Your deck may have more than 99 cards in it.
CARDNAME enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for every 10 cards more than 99 that you have in your main-deck.
GWU Legend
You're deck may have a 15 card sideboard.
1GWU, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Put a card from your sideboard into your hand.
I don't know if there is much space, but it's a wild idea and I am in the business of throwing out wiiiiild ideas.
On swapable commanders, I had some time ago - after listening to a deck built around Assault Formation as an honorary commander - this idea:
DeleteToklan, Metalshaper URW
Legendary Creature - Dwarf Artificer
Before the start of the game, if Toklan is in your command zone, name a noncreature artifact card, then search your library for that card and put it into your command zone, then shuffle Toklan, Metalshaper in your library. For the rest of the game, that card is your commander instead of Toklan.
2/4
Or
Toklan, Metalshaper URW
Legendary Creature - Dwarf Artificer
At the beginning of your first upkeep, if Toklan is in your command zone, name a noncreature artifact card.
Whenever you cast Toklan, search your graveyard, hand or library for a card with that name and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Same thing with a Bant (or Abzan?) general but with enchantments instead.
The first Toklan is probably not a good idea from a fun / balance perspective. There are lots of artifacts that could potentially be broken if used as Commanders, and odds are you'd always be getting the same one.
DeleteI like the general "tag-team" idea, though, and I think the second Toklan is a good step towards that. I could imagine an ability like:
Tag team-- You may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. For the rest of the game, if that creature would be put anywhere other than the battlefield, you may return it to your command zone instead.
That's a bit wordy, but you get the idea. The trick would be finding ways of getting it onto the battlefield that wouldn't be strictly better than that commander on its own. For example, I could imagine a commander with a death trigger that would (conditionally?) put the other commander onto the battlefield.
@Devin: I like this idea a lot, and I only need enough design space for 4-5 creatures. Here are some basic ideas:
DeleteWUB Legend
As long as CARDNAME is your commander, your minimum deck size is incresaed by 50 and you may have two copies each card in your deck.
R Legend
As long as CARDNAME is your commander, your minimum deck size is reduced by 20.
G Legend
At the beggining of the game, if CARDNAME is your commander, name a creature with mana cost with four or greater. You may have three extra copies of that card in your deck.
I'm probably going to make some sort itteration on this for my final design.
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@P for Pizza: I agree with Ipaulsen on your ideas, but completly agree with the need for a dwarf commander.
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@Ipaulsen: Tag team is a great mechanic, and affects deckbuilding like Devin offered. I might use it on only one card though. What are some good effects that would go well with Tag Team? Something where they are benifited if they are both on the battlefield, like Soulbond.
Bear in mind that these cards are going to have to have accompanying precon decks. "Players who purchase box X get 150 cards, players who purchase Y only get 80" does not sound like it'll go over well.
DeleteG legend also doesn't work unless you shuffle those cards in from outside the game (like Research).
@Jenesis: Why doesn't the green legend work?
Delete--------------------------
@Zeno Rage and Jenesis:
Perhaps we could find a way to standardize the "bonus" cards so that every deck gets the same number? For example, maybe every deck comes with 103 cards, and the three "bonus cards" all fulfill different functions.
Hypothetical Jeskai Legend WUR
Legendary Creature - Cat Wizard
Prowess (Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, this creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)
At the beginning of the game, choose an instant or sorcery with converted mana cost 1 or less and put into your command zone.
1RWU: Cast the chosen instant or sorcery from your command zone.
2/3
Hypothetical Bant Legend 1WUG
Legendary Creature - Salamander Rogue
Begin the game with a sideboard of up to 15 cards.
1WUG, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Put a card you own from outside the game into your hand.
2/4
Hypothetical Bant Legend's deck would seem... slightly unfinished if it only came with a three card sideboard, but most people who play magic like building decks. Even the Timmiest of Power-Gamers would probably be happy shoving 12 Craw Wurms into the sideboard.
Maybe the board should just always be three cards for power reasons anyway???
Maybe would could explicitly call it a Wishboard, because some EDH players do play with a five to fifteen card sideboard???
Regardless, the deck would obviously reprint some of the wish cycle (Golden Wish and Living Wish seem like obvious includes? Would Cunning Wish be too strong? Glittering?)
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHypothetical Jeskai Legend is meant to be able to cast the one-mana spell an unlimited number of times, not just once.
DeleteI think the most elegant solution is to just say that since the spell is in your command zone, whenever it would go anywhere other than your hand, you can return it to your command zone, but we could put it into the text of the ability. Something like "Then return it to your command zone."
@Devin E. Green: CR 112.6m An ability that modifies the rules for deck construction functions before the game begins. Such an ability modifies not just the Comprehensive Rules, but also the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules and any other documents that set the deck construction rules for a specific format. However, such an ability can’t affect the format legality of a card, including whether it’s banned or restricted. The current Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules can be found at WPN.Wizards.com/en/resources/rules-documents.
DeleteThere's precedent for this in Conspiracy with Advantageous Proclamation, which is revealed before decks become libraries. Commanders are also revealed before decks become libraries. So I suppose we could have a commander that lets you make a choice after commanders are revealed but before the start-of-game procedure starts, but "at the beginning of the game" is a weird phrase to use in that case, because it means something different than Leylines' "begin the game with...".
@Devin & Jenesis: How about something more like this for the green legend.
DeleteBeastmaster Legend
As long as CARDNAME is your commander, you may have four copies of a single creature card with a mana cost of four or more.
I also wanted an ability that said the creature costed 1 less and got +1/+1, but I don't think I can reference the creature like this with this wording. Ideas?
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As for the pre-con deck problem, I think Devin is on the right track. Except I think (and this might be a big stretch and possibly unlikely that Wizards would do) that we could make each deck have an extra 50 cards. Especially if there was only four decks being made.
That way players could a little deckbuilding themselves. They can swap in the cards they wanted, and it would give players a little more variety. Think about it like this; Wizards puts two booster packs in the 60 card pre made decks so that players can do the same thing.
@Zeno Rage
DeleteBorrowing from Conspiracy:
At the beginning of the game secretly place a creature card face-down into your command zone. You may turn it face-up at any time.
This works around a lot of the deckbuilding issues. You could easily give the Legend any sort of ability you wanted, like, "1G, T: Return target creature card that shares a name with a creature card in your command zone from your graveyard to your hand." or "Creatures that share a name with a creature card in your command zone get +3/+3" or whatever other angle you want to go with
The end result is sort of like a modal Tolsimir Wolfblood? That would also fit with the idea of have 103 card decks, as the deck could come with three options, and you have to secretly choose one at the beginning of the game.
I've changed my mind and am going with Tag Team, with maybe a tribal theme.
DeleteWhat are some things that tribal hasn't done or done very little of?
What are some good abilities for creatures that "pair up."
One tribal theme that could go well with Tag Team would be dual-tribal. I'm thinking of Sosuke, Son of Seshiro and Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro; one shared tribe with complementary benefits, and one distinct tribe.
DeleteI think class tribal (Cleric, Druid, Artificer, as opposed to Elf, Dwarf, Cephalid) is underdone. White/Blue Advisor Tribal! Grixis Pirates! G/x Shamen!
For Commander, giving small tribes ways to keep their board or refresh it in the face of Wraths is vital. This can be token making, flickering, or indestructibility. (Personally, I want more blue token-making, so I'd plug for a blue tribe with lots of tokeny goodness; Talrand suggests this doesn't fit well on the Commander itself, though.)
A lot of the low-hanging fruit has been done, but there's a lot of more tribe-specific things available. For example: Wizard tribal with super-prowess; getting extra Wizard tokens or putting +1/+1 counters on your Wizards. Tribal cast triggers might be good as well; getting rewards sooner is good.
It would be neat to have, like, three commanders who all have at least one tribe in common with one another?
DeleteThen you could have a variety of synergies that depend on those things.
- > Human Cleric -> Cat Cleric Wizard - > Dwarf Wizard -> ... etc.
And maybe you can only swap to a Legend that shares a creature type?
Third question is what characters would I bring back? What characters do we want to see? Which ones need the spotlight, maybe because they were shunted last time around. Which legendarys are popular in commander that are due for New card?
ReplyDeleteA Shadows over Innistrad preview / tie-in would be neat.
DeleteYou could also revisit important story characters that got unappealing card designs the first time around. Gerrard Capashen and Emmara Tandris come to mind.
Even though I've been playing since Odyssey, I don't really have an attachment to any of the characters from sets before, say, Zendikar. Well, I mean, aside from Ravnica and Mirrodin, but both of those planes have been revisited.
DeleteBUT, the overall aesthetic of Lorwyn, for example, still have a lot of pathos even if no one is hankering for a new Brigid, Hero of Shadowmoor card. So you could definitely do a Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Style Faerie or Kithkin and get some resonance there.
Another idea might be to try and build someone based on a Planar Chaos card, since there are a ton of Planes in that which we still haven't visited.
MTG Salvation has a great wiki for lore if you aren't sure, for example, what all we know about Muraganda while you're designing some sort of sweet Legendary Dinosaur Wizard.
That's my actual suggestion. Make a Legendary Dinosaur Commander.
The characters I have an idea on are:
DeleteA Beastmaster/caller/bard
This we would be the green legend I suggested above, once I figure out how to format him.
A Dwarf
The red commander. Might also be white. He'll most likely use the Tag Team idea.
A Djinn
This one will use the sideboard idea that Devin suggested, except I'm planning on making him colorless.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
I'm using Arcanis as the commander with a 150 card deck. Who else would be omnipotent enough to do that?
What do you guys think?
You had me at bard.
DeleteMy only Vorthosy concern is that if you remake Arcanis, but the other legends are not riffs on classic legends, it will make the whole set feel wonked. I would rather see five original characters or five updated characters.
If you want a middle ground, how about riffing on the Granduer cycle of legends from Time Spiral Block? Arcanis's Apprentice? Some sort of riff on Serendib Efreet or (My personal fave) Frenetic Efreet?
C14 had two nostalgia characters, one character from the current storyline, one existing character who hadn't been formally introduced yet (Nahiri), and one completely new character.
DeleteI think nostalgia legend + 2 or 3 new characters is fine. I just don't think that character is Arcanis. He never struck me as particularly popular or in need of a storyline update. It doesn't help that he was most recently reprinted in the flop that was DD:Speed v Cunning.
I just was thinking that only a powerful, awesome, bad ass wizard would let you increase your repertoire of spells and master them. Arcanis is the most awesome wizard of all time (at least he should be). He lets you draw 3 cards with no drawbacks, he can teleport from your opponents, and he's a wizard. Not a human wizard, not an elf wizard, not even an avatar wizard. Just plain Wizard. The Wizard.
DeleteThat's why I thought he would be cool as a commander reprint.
Scrap my above plan, I'm going tribal. I need five tribes that have enough legendary creatures to give players options as their Tag Team target. Yet I don't want to do the regular most popular tribes without trying some other ones.
DeleteHere's a list of possibles:
Emmara Tandris as an elf commander.
A dwarf commander.
A fairy commander.
A hydra commander.
A spirit commander.
An ally commander.
A zombie/vampire commander.
A kithkin commander.
A giant commander.
It's interesting to compare the "small creature" tribes, which see plenty of play in Standard but little in Commander, with the "large creature" tribes where roughly the opposite is true. The small-creature tribes might require a lot of commander support, except maybe for Elves where you can emphasize ramp.
DeleteSo your plan is to limit the tag-team commander to another legendary creature of the same creature type? Combining tag team with tribal is a cool idea and there's definitely some flavor appeal to it, but I'm worried that it might be too much of a restriction on deckbuilding. For example, Hydra tribal would be a cool theme except that there are only three Hydra legends-- two if the commander isn't all five colors since that would exclude Progenitus.
In any case I'm a big fan of Spirit tribal. That one has lots of good Commander options thanks to Kamigawa block.
I wasn't thinking of limiting it to creatures of the same race. I was just thinking the commanders would have some sort of tribal element in conjunction of Tag Team, so players will be more likely to a creature of the same type as the tag team partner. The commander decks them selves could also include other new legendary creatures in that tribe.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIf you tag your commander out, can you get it back if the new commander doesn't have Tag Team?
DeleteHow about a dedicated cat tribal commander for white? It seems to be a realtively popular theme but hasn't had a dedicated commander since Raksha (which for reference was before vigilance was keyworded)!
DeleteThere are 10 legendary cats, half of which are white, including Raksha. Compare that to 17 legendary goblins, all of which are at least red. Seems about time for a new cat.
There are some tribes out there that could really use some lord-loving. Ooze, bear, spider in the Green department for starters.
DeleteIf tribal is a component and we're looking for some nostalgia characters, some Llorwyn favorites could use some attention. Oona for faeries, Rhys for Elves.
I like where tag team ended up, but for it to be templated on a card really limits the interesting things you can do from a tribal perspective. What if the face card legends had only tribal/awesome stuff and the alternate commanders all had this ability:
DeleteTag-team: Before you begin the game, if ~ is in your deck, not your commander and has the same color ID as your commander, you may reveal it, remove it from your library and put it in the command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
If the alts share one+ creatures types with the headlining commander, you effectively have the team that plays off of each other.
Oona as example
Oona of the Dreamstuff
Legendary Creature - Faerie Wizard
Tap a Faerie or Wizard you control: Mill 1.
Whenever an instant or sorcery is put into an opponents graveyard from anywhere, untap a creature you control.
Other Faerie
Leg. Creature Faerie Wizard
Tag Team
[Some cool ability opening up a second deck building option while riffing with oona]
@zefferal: Having the ability just turn the creature into an additional commander works beautifully! It saves so much space on the card. I'm not sure how well the wording works in the rules, though.
DeleteFor now, I'm going to just make the single Main header cycle with tag team, though I did think about making the secondary cycle to showcase alongside the cards that had Tag Team. I imagine that the commander product would be packaged so that you could see both of the new commanders, similar to the Commander 2012 packaging.
An idea I had when I saw the prompt is
ReplyDeleteNew Original Elder Dragons
We could have a new cycle of the Legends Dragons.
They would of course be shard colors, but I think they would feel enough different from both Alara and C13.
They should:
- be very flavorful and nostalgic (but not slave to their original - in most cases subpar - designs)
- be powerful but not oppressive, fun to play with and against
- encourage different buildings aroung them (discouraging generic good-stuff builds)
I like shards as commanders. They're the color combination that's gotten the least love in recent years (wedges in KTK, enemy colors this year, ally colors in everything) and there were some design and marketing choices pertaining to the previous shard-colored offerings that left a sour taste in my mouth.
DeleteI don't love the idea of more Elder Dragons, though. Magic is pretty Dragon'd out for a while from DTK. I'd buy it as the secondary legend cycle, but not the box headliner.
Shards seem fun. Those colors are due for a re-imagining.
DeleteI've long hoped for a Grixis Commander deck with Skellum, Chainer's mentor from the Torment novel. Here's a stab at Skellum with the Tag Team mechanic. I proxied it up and it's 8 lines.
DeleteSkellum, Dementia Master (MYTHIC RARE)
4BB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
4/3
Nightmare creatures you control and horror creatures you control have deathtouch.
UR: Target creature you control gains hexproof and haste until end of turn. Return it to its owner’s hand at end of turn.
Tag team — You may start the game with a second commander if Skellum, Dementia Master is your primary commander.
Some general thoughts:
ReplyDelete*multiplayer matters! Look at the effects from games like Cosmic Encounters for multi-player effects that might be cool.
*Shuffling is the bane of Commander. I play a LOT of commander. Shuffling is like lagging in computer games.
*Exile is important! Better multi-target spells that exile to prevent recusrsion is good for the format.
*Please steer away from sideboard and increased deck sizes because they add shuffling to an already quite shuffle full game.
To be fair, shuffling is the bane of any format with fetch/dual manabases.
Delete+1 for the Cosmic Encounter reference. "Make allies" mechanics haven't gone over terribly well in previous implementations, though.
Battle of Wits is a 250 card deck that sees play, and that's harder to shuffle than what I'm proposing. And that's only one card. The other cards I'm making don't increase the amount of shuffling you have to do. I don't see how you think having a sideboard to "wish" from would increase shuffling.
DeleteDo not worry. I realize that this territory may not be appealing or even right for players. If worse comes to worse I will make a 5 card cycle based on the Tag Team mechanic.
@Fade: I don't understand why sideboarding adds to shuffling? I've been thinking about it for, like, ten minutes. Did you just mean the bigger deck would be harder to shuffle?
Delete@Devin: I am refering both bigger decks being harder to shuffling and the optional sideboard rule of commander leads to people revealing their commanders then being able to switch up to 10 cards in their deck with cards they have in their sideboard. That rule (we tried it) provided a terrible experience: people using their sideboards had to select what cards to remove before adding silver bullets in, which took ages.
DeleteCommander is a game that already has a lot of varietty with 100 cards. Adding 50 more is not really that usefull in my opinion, and I am frustrated that I cannot find the links for the articles I want on gatheringmagic and starcitygames to further my point of view right now. I will keep searching.
@Fade and Zeno: For what it's worth, I'm sort of convinced by what Fading is saying.
DeleteI have been calling them sideboards for purposes of clarity, since sideboards are a familiar idea, but maybe it's more confusing than its worth.
I'm not suggesting that we put extra cards in that can be swapped in every game, I'm suggesting that you get to pick one card as part of your start-of-game, and that card interacts with your commander in a unique way.
From a design perspective, it's probably best to have all the decks come with the same number of cards (I suggest 103, somewhat arbitrarily) Taking a step from that, each commander should have a unique way of utilizing those three extra cards. Apologies if this sounds like I'm repeating myself, but it seems like I haven't been clear.
Here is the first three cards I have so far.I'll try to finish and post the other two today so that I can recieve some feedback, but my computer has been acting up all day, so no promises.
ReplyDeleteThey aren't completely balanced and intentionally so. I started them off overpowered, and as I get critiques, I'll adjust them accordingly.
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Oona of Shadowmoor-1UUBB
Legendary Creature-Faerie Wizard-Mythic
You may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
Flying
Tap a Faerie or Wizard you control: Target opponent puts the top card of his or her library into their graveyard. Whenever an instant or sorcery is put into an opponents graveyard this way, untap a creature you control.
5/5
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Corraich of Alkabah-3RRW
Legendary Creature-Dwarf Warrior-Mythic
You may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
Whenever Corraich of Alkabah attacks for the first time each turn, if there’s a dwarf in your command zone, untap all dwarves you control and they gain Double strike. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
3/6
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Tiersa Beastmaster-1GR
Legendary Creature-Human Bard
You may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
Hydra spells you cast cost 1RG less to cast.
Whenever a creature with X in its casting cost enters the battlefield under your control, add 1RG to your mana pool.
1/1
1) For Corraich, there really aren't enough dwarf legends to care about whether one is in your command zone or not.
Delete2) If Oona cares about Faeries and Wizards, Corraich should care about Dwarfs and Warriors. Note that this solves issue 1.
3) A tribal card named beastmaster should probably key to Beast tribal, not Hydra.
1) In a vacuum, you would be correct. But it comes with an entire commander deck, full of new cards, to support it. Even if they printed one white, one red, and one multicolor dwarf, that would be enough for the time being. Plus Mark Rosewater has hinted that they are currently working on a set featuring the return of dwarves. I'm sure they will feature some legendary dwarves, and having commander product feature them before then would be a nice setup.
DeleteEven then, I can always change it to your suggestion of warriors and dwarfs, or even just any creature.
2) I do not agree. I see the commander cycle as a loose affiliation, barely being alike. They're like a group of ideas, but are able to be their own thing. If this was a cycle in a normal set, like Lorwyn for example, I would agree with you.
I'm disagreeing about the fact that this commander cycle has to be similar, but I aggree that it would solve my dwarf problem.
3) I have a confession: I'm terrible at coming up with names. I usually use a random name generator to get some names, and even then I have to come up with the rest. For instance, for both Corraich and Oona, I used 'of {insert home plane}' with out even realizing it! I'm going to change her name in due course.
re: 1) Vacuum applies - You want people to customize their commander decks, make them theirs. If the only way Corraich works is in the deck he comes prepackaged with, that takes away 99% of what makes magic fun - making it your own.
DeleteSuggestions for Oona - mill each opponent, not just one. More interesting as a multiplayer commander. If it proves imbalanced, you can limit the untap clause to trigger off of instants alone (or things with flash, to key into the Lorwyn Faerie gimmick)
DeleteI'm rendering the cards (it helps me critique them), and as templated, tag team is about three lines of rules text. Unfortunately, it needs to add the clause "If ~ is your commander" for it to work, which changes it to four lines with typical Legendary creature name-length. Somethign to consider. With my added If clause, Oona is nine lines of rules text.
DeleteI've already rendered the cards and will put a link to them. I'm trying to shorten them as much as possible, and after the first review I might make two cycles, one with Tag Team, and one with an ability that works well, or something along those lines.
DeleteSo here's the problem I have with the current implementation of Tag Team: If I have any other EDH deck helmed by a commander with the same color identity, add in the Tag Team creature as my "commander", and basically play the exact same deck but minus the worst card in the now-98. This probably isn't actually an issue because all the commanders are highly tribal, but it's still a potential issue.
DeleteAs far as the cards themselves go:
Oona: 5 mana 5/5 flier is very aggressive, so it makes sense that her ability is...considerably less so. However, UB already has a ton of milling options, including the original Oona. I'd like to see something more fae-like, such as:
-a buff to Faerie/Wizard creatures when you do instant-speed stuff
-"trickery", e.g. soft counters, or changing targets of things
-bouncing your own creatures
Corraich: Change it to "Dwarves or Warriors" and it'd be perfect. Right now Dwarves is a little bit too limiting. I might kick out the command zone restriction entirely, since none of the other ones have it. I also don't love the similarities to Godo at the same price point; maybe make him smaller and knock off a mana.
Tiersa: This seems tailor-made to chain into a turn 4 10/10 Apocalypse Hydra. Should say "in its mana cost." I'm cool with Bard, but could this please be something other than a Human? Goblin? Giant? Viashino maybe? Humans are boring even when they do get tribal themes.
Agreed with Jenesis-- this version of Tag Team is straying too close to "strictly better" territory. One way you could avoid that is to not actually make the other "commander" castable-- instead provide a different way to get it onto the battlefield. But that might get too complicated.
DeleteFor Tag Team, I was hoping the tribal focus of the cards themselves would help to stop them from just being played in any deck. I will probably have to decrease the power of the cards to compensate for Tag Team. Another idea would be to have abilities that trigger depending on the card you have in your command zone, similar to Corraich. That way, the power of having two commanders is offset by the fact that one of them is practically a vanilla when you have both of them in play.
DeleteSo going down the line, here is what I've redone to Oona:
DeleteHigh Monarch Oona-1UUBB
Legendary Creature-Faerie Wizard
As long as High Monarch Oona is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
Flying
Sacrifice a commander: Change a target of a spell or ability that targets a faerie you control.
4/4
Some notes:
1. It now all fits in 8 lines. Beforehand she did fit... until I realized she needed flying... and the "If cardname is your commander" text. Then it became to much.
2. She's now more "fae-like." I took Jenesis's suggestion to change targets of spells and ran with it.
3. She now interacts with your second commander more. I'm trying not to just make the cards "Tag Team + Good Stuff." Tribal somewhat helps with that, but I'm not sure if that is enough.
4. Name still needs work.
Next up, Corraich:
DeleteCorraich of Alkabah-RRWW
Legendary Creature-Dwarf Warrior
As long as Corraich of Alkabah is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, if there’s a dwarf or warrior in your command zone, untap all dwarves you control. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
2/4
Some notes:
1. It now all fits in 8 lines of text. I had to get rid of the double strike and the attack trigger in order to make it fit, so hopefully those balance out.
2. It doesn't have the reminder text: (in addition to your first commander). I'm not sure if anyone noticed in my first versions that some of the cards had it, and others didn't. This is intentional, as is the only way the text will fit.
3. Alkabah is the plane where Dack Fayden had his hand(involuntarily) turned permanently red. Wizards hasn't said anything specific about this plane, so I don't know if it actually has dwarves or not.
So after four iterations, I think I've got something for Tiersa:
DeleteTiersa Hydra Soother-1GR
Legendary Creature-Human Bard
As long as Tiersa Hydra Soother is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
Whenever you cast a hydra spell, Tiersa Hydra Soother deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the converted mana cost of target hydra card in your command zone or exile.
3/1
Some notes:
1. I got rid of the cost reduction because, as Jenesis pointed out, it was slightly to good. I could have had it just reduced RG, but I was running out of room, and I felt as if it was unnecessary.
2. I changed the "X in it's mana cost" trigger too "hydra spell." This way it,s clearer what it is trying to do, and feels more tribal.
3. It's more red. I added the ability to look at the exile zone to tie into reds exile draws, and upped the power to make her more aggressive. Hopefully this makes her feel more red.
As a side note, impulsive mana adding is a red thing, whereas permanent mana adding is green. Tiersa's mana adding is kind of a combination of both. It's not an automatic-every turn thing, which is green, but its also more permanent than most of reds mana sources.
4. I can't seem to find good art for this. I'm look for something that shows a druid/ beastmaster/ bard in front of a hydra, as if they are in complete control. If anyone has seen something good, let me know.
Now here's the other two cards in the cycle.
ReplyDelete---------------------------------------------------
Faire Unquale-3BG
Legendary Creature-Elf Druid-Mythic
You may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
You may cast elf creatures as though they had flash.
Whenever an elf you control dies, add X mana in any combination of G and/or B to your mana pool, where X is the that creature’s converted mana cost.
3/4
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Traft, the Saint of Angels-WU
Legendary Creature-Spirit Cleric-Mythic
You may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
As long as you control an angel, Traft, the Saint of Angels has hexproof.
At the beginning of your end step, exile any number of angels or spirits you control. Return them to the battlefield at the beginning of your next upkeep and they gain haste.
2/2
Not going to dig too deep on Faire, because while the ability makes sense in BG, that member of the cycle is meant to be GW in keeping with the allied-color cycle you're plotting, and that ability suite doesn't fit with Selesnya.
DeleteThe cycles not allied paired, it's more tribal themed. I tried to explain that above (way above), but I don't think I was clear.
DeleteGeneral critique - try to find a single creature type to work with for both of your colors. Oona and Faries is fine, but UB also works with rogues and a few others. There are a handful of RG hydras, but most are mono-G. I've already discussed Dwarves, but warriors typically aren't too heavily focused in W either. Traft desperately wants to lose caring about spirits in addition to angels, but angels are rarely blue.
DeleteTiersa is just as interesting as a mono-green commander. Make the fact that you're in two colors a feature, not a bug.
If you're abandoning ally-pairing, go all the way. Make at least one mono, one three, one ally, one enemy. Try to center each commander in one color, and keep the distribution of colors somewhat balanced.
DeleteHaving four allied pairs and one enemy is a mistake though.
DeleteThe dwarf commander is RW.
DeleteFaire: In keeping with previous critique, vote for one of the abilities to be changed to Druid. (Probably the second one, since Elves tend to have a low CMC.) Furthermore...A second mana-producing ability after the Hydra lord already covered that space? I know that it synergizes with the flash ability even though it will most likely happen on the opponent's turn, but boardwipes are pretty common in EDH, which will kill Faire and then leave you high and dry with a pool full of useless mana because Faire doesn't have flash theirself. I'd try to find another ability, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would be useful post-boardwipe and wouldn't constitute card advantage.
DeleteTraft: I did not realize it, but there are actual 0 Angel Lord effects currently in Magic. Traft makes sense as a card, but I dislike it for two reasons: 1) that he's aping Obzedat's shtick (since he can exile/hastify himself) and to a lesser extent Brago, and 2) that he isn't an actual Angel, which I feel the first Angel lord effect ought to be. That's a minor point though since UW is not exactly replete with legendary Angels (or Clerics for that matter).
@Jenesis - ... right you are. Not sure how I missed that.
DeleteHere is what I redid to Faire:
DeleteFaire Unquale-3GB
Legendary Creature-Elf Druid
As long as Faire Unquale is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
Whenever three or more elves you control die, you may put an elf creature from your hand or command zone unto the battlefield.
4/4
Some notes:
1. So the previous version was me trying to create a card that would allow you to play your second commander after it was killed, or after you lost some creatures. But I didn't have enough room to put Flash on herself, so it turned out kinda sloppy. Mostly I was just trying to help tribal with post board wipe and after their lords got killed.
2. No more infinite combo. Before there was a potential for an infinite combo with any sacrifice outlet and an enters the battlefield ability, which wasn't good.
3. I'm not sure what the perfect number for the trigger is, so I put three to be safe. Although for all I know, it might not be safe enough.
4. It now all fits in 8 lines of text. I feel like this is an obligatory thing to point out, since the other versions were somewhat lengthy.
5. I'm not completely happy with this ability. I'm not quite sure why, but it might just be a preference of design/gameplay/what I find exciting.
Finally here is the Saint of Angels:
DeleteTraft, Saint of Angels-WU
Legendary Creature-Spirit Cleric
As long as Traft, Saint of Angels is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
Traft, Saint of Angels has Hexproof long as an angel is in your command zone.
Angels and spirits you control have “1: Return this card to your hand.”
2/2
Some notes
1. First off all, I tried to make the original as flavorful as possible. That's why it had the cross tribal angel spirits. I decided to keep that part of him, although I could take off the spirit tribal to be honest. But maybe in Shadows Over Innistrad he becomes a general of an angel/ spirit army. (Hypothetical joke there)
2. If there was enough room, I would have kept the flickering. On my original version, it was supposed to say "other spirit or angels" (typo). Plus I don't think it is any one spirits shtick, I feel like it's a spirit thing all together.
Here are the renders of the cycle: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hseagg108uet09/Commanders%202.mse-set?dl=0
ReplyDelete---------------------------------------------------
And here is all of the cycle in one place:
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High Monarch Oona-1UUBB
Legendary Creature-Faerie Wizard
As long as High Monarch Oona is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
Flying
Sacrifice a commander: Change a target of a spell or ability that targets a faerie you control.
4/4
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Corraich of Alkabah-RRWW
Legendary Creature-Dwarf Warrior
As long as Corraich of Alkabah is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, if there’s a dwarf or warrior in your command zone, untap all dwarves you control. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
2/4
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Tiersa Hydra Soother-1GR
Legendary Creature-Human Bard
As long as Tiersa Hydra Soother is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
Whenever you cast a hydra spell, Tiersa Hydra Soother deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the converted mana cost of target hydra card in your command zone or exile.
3/1
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Faire Unquale-3GB
Legendary Creature-Elf Druid
As long as Faire Unquale is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander (in addition to your first commander).
Whenever three or more elves you control die, you may put an elf creature from your hand or command zone unto the battlefield.
4/4
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Traft, Saint of Angels-WU
Legendary Creature-Spirit Cleric
As long as Traft, Saint of Angels is your commander, you may begin the game with an additional legendary creature from your library in your command zone. It becomes a commander.
Traft, Saint of Angels has Hexproof long as an angel is in your command zone.
Angels and spirits you control have “1: Return this card to your hand.”
2/2