This fortnight, Zefferal is going to take lead on this challenge:Design 8 'big' commons that will help break stalemates. Design at least one for each color. They needn't relate to each other, or even belong to the same set. Thanks to Nich for the challenge idea.
Zefferal's first submission is due 4/5. I'll review it 4/6.
Zefferal's last submission is due 4/12. I'll review that 4/13.
Hopefully.
Zefferal is strongly encouraged to solicit ideas and feedback from the rest of the Artisans, and the community is strongly encouraged to help Zefferal as much as you are able.
Ha! Jay left me waaaaaaay too much creative freedom here to start seeding any ideas. The best way to start this is to answer the really big question first: Do they all come from the same set, or from eight different?
ReplyDeleteConsiderations:
Same set - we get to look deep at one world (which one TBD) and see how that set's identity wants us to solve stalemates from a number of different angles. Easier in that there's more cohesion between the cards, more common ground to start from for any given card. More difficult in that it requires more creative approaches if I want the commons to be interesting designs.
Eight different sets - I get to answer the "question" eight different times. We go wide, getting overviews of eight different planes and what makes them tick before making a single card for each to answer the question. The cards will have far less relation to one another, but it makes for a better exercise in worldbuilding than in set identity.
Thoughts?
I like playing to the extremes here, so I'm not really considering doing 2-3 cards for each of 3-4 sets.
DeleteThat's seems sweet because, like, you can pretty much just include the best designs from a couple different cycles.
DeleteYou also won't be too constrained. Some can come from tight cycles with similar names, effects or some common theme (The Nyxborn Cycle), and others where the connections are more general (Boulderfall, Thassa's Bounty, Sip of Hemlock). Again, lots of freedom, but that probably means we need to constrict ourselves or we might never get anywhere.
My question: What different sort of stalemates should we address?
Board stalls, obviously.
The two sides of the control matchup also seem like they count, haymakers to beat control, and finishers to turn the corner after you've stabilized.
Other thoughts?
Does "big" mean "large", or "anything that breaks stalls"? Do most sets even have 8 stall-breaking commons?
DeleteI would solicit some ideas, and then see what's most interesting, whether there's an idea that naturally spans multiple cards, or if there's multiple ideas fighting for the same space (seems likely, there's a lot of worthwhile tweaks on "big common green creature").
Personally I'm feeling a bit cycled-out, so I'd go for isolated designs, or cards spread across 2-4 worlds, but that's just me, it's not necessarily better.
I'd also seek ideas that could be shown off in this context even if they don't have to be, eg. mechanics or world ideas which could be showcased on a big common creature.
I'm pretty sure "big" is in quotes because while that's one way to address the puzzle, it's far from the only.
DeleteFWIW, I picked a set at random, Theros, and counted how many cards I thought could plausibly be called stall-breakers:
Deletehttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&type=+[%22Creature%22]&set=+[%22Theros%22]&rarity=+[C]
Agent of Horizons - activated unblockable
Benthic Giant - 4/5 hexproof
Blood-Toll Harpy - 2/1 flier
Cavalry Pegasus - flying + makes humans fly
Cavern Lampad - intimidate
Gray Merchant of Asphodel - opponent life loss
Ill-Tempered Cyclops - trample + monstrosity
Nessian Asp - Monstrosity
Nimbus Naiad - 2/2 flying
Prescient Chimera - 3/4 flying
Scholar of Athreos - repeat lifedrain
Setessan Griffin - 3/2 flying once-per-turn-pump
Staunch-Hearted Warrior - Heroic two +1/+1 counters
Vaporkin - 2/1 flying
Vulpine Goliath - 6/5 trample
Wingsteed Rider - 2/2 flying
I wasn't quite sure what to count, there were also some repeatable token generators, deathtouch creatures, and tappers, which would often be stall-breakers but I wasn't sure if they were here. I'm not a developer so I tried to be over-inclusive when I wasn't sure -- I included large or repeated lifeloss, 2+ power evasive creatures, and all 4/4 or more creatures.
That's more than I thought, although the weaker ones probably contribute to stall-breaking rather than do it all by themselves.
Also, doesn't need to be a creature, per se, to break a stall.
DeleteThat's an awesome list by the way, and a great place to start from.
DeleteConsider maybe 4 for a large set, and 4 for its companion small set? That way there's a constraint (same setting, deeper exploration), with less worry of the designs choking each other out.
ReplyDeleteI like that plan quite a bit.
DeleteMy personal vote is for: not all relating to the same set, no flavor components in the initial design, let's just toss out as many different potential ideas as possible and then figure out how to develop them into reasonably common-looking cards.
ReplyDeleteSomething like Dawnglare Invoker would count as 'big' in my book. Other potential inspirations: Wildheart Invoker; haste + bad stuff for opponent on hit; Shades/"put a +1/+1 counter on this"; Levelers/Abzan "creatures with counters" mechanic; ETB force opponent attacks; "can't be countered" (for control mirrors); Thallids (repeatable token production); Soaring Seacliff/Sejiri Steppe.
Also, spells/spell-like effects that don't cost a card, ala Buyback (not fun), Forecast (ditto), Recover (meh), Retrace (like), Imprint (if doable at common).
DeleteThe invokers are a good example, clearly common, clearly finishers, and quite interesting too.
DeleteI would go for an invoker. I'm looking for structural considerations first mostly because that will give us some really good guidelines in how to make these commons shine.
DeleteAlright, after giving it much thought, I'm going with Pasteur's suggestion of splitting the cards between two hypothetical sets of the same block. I'm going to go 5 in the first, 3 in the second.
ReplyDeleteI initially wanted to divvy up the cards into one of each monocolor, an artifact, a land, and a multicolor, but multicolor doesn't make much sense at common unless it's a major mechanical theme of the set. Likewise, a common land that undoes stalls probably doesn't make too much sense off of Zendikar, so unless I'm basing operations there, we'll take that off as well.
Finally, the easiest color for a common to "go big" is green, and the next best color for breaking stalemates is likely black, so I'm pushing those into "Set 2," whatever it is. The five "Set 1" commons will be white, blue, red, an artifact, and something TBD. Those are what I would like to start with.
Blue or white could do a tribal Sleep effect (maybe without the untap-skipping, especially if it's white). At common, that's probably going to be more in the mold of Glimpse The Sun God. Sleep spells are a good fairy-tale theme.
DeleteRed gets falter effects, but something with first strike and trample seems neater. Seems good on a giant, or as a tribal reward on an elemental.
For some reason a scarecrow with a Lure effect seems appropriate to me and really compelling.
Next up, because I was a big fan of the set and we're not going to be revisiting it again any time soon, we'll turn our hypothetical sets into Llorwyn & Shadowmoor revisited. I'm going to be laying out design guidelines for such a revisit a little later tonight or tomorrow morning, and that will give us the real initial set of guidelines for the first five commons.
ReplyDeleteFrom the last time I contemplated what a return to Lorwyn would look like:
Deletehttp://goblinartisans.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-set-in-four-cards-shadows-of-lorwyn.html#comment-form
General Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Design Guidelines:
Delete* Tribal is a major mechanical theme, but not at as high a volume.
* Hybrid cards appear, but mostly at Uncommon and higher. There might be a 5 or 10 card cycle at common.
* The set plays on the shift that happens when the world transforms between its two states. This might be DFCs, it might be another mechanical interpretation.
If you use night/day:
DeleteNight - while it's night, creatures can't block
That sounds like a plan. Random ideas for Lorwyn:
ReplyDeleteTribal invoker:
Ballynook Rallyer
1W
Creature - Kithkin Warrior
2/1
If you control four or more other kithkin [white creatures?] kithkin you control get +2/+2 and skulk.
Artifact creature:
Stalking Scarecrow
6
Artifact Creature - Scarecrow
3/3
{T}: Target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
Skulk really doesn't feel white/Kithkin to me.
DeleteAnd while the scarecrow is useful during stalemates, it's less by breaking them and more by rewarding them.
Yeah, it probably needs to change to something else. The way it was flavoured was quite U/B. But I think in another world it could have been W -- It's straight off Mistmeadow Skulk, and the flavour of "attacking and not fearing larger creatures" is quite white weenie.
DeleteHonestly, Mistmeadow Skulk felt really weird to me the first time. And the part that felt weirdest was the unblockability piece.
DeleteAuntie's Discovery B
ReplyDeleteSorcery
Reveal the top card of your library and lose life equal to its converted mana cost. Put it into your hand.
Retrace
-Some kind of Skulkin callback would be nice + effective at mana-intensive common stallbreaking. Referencing the cycle but not cycling it, I imagine it would have
"3: Another target creature gets (evasion of your choice) until end of turn"
doing away with the color restriction. Sadly, neither Skulk nor Menace are super effective at getting through a clogged board, though it's possible either could be sufficient at the right cost.
How would Auntie's Discovery break a stall? I'm not seeing it.
DeleteI suppose I reached that card through opposite ends - after Jenesis mentioned Retrace above, I was thinking about Lorwyn flavor, and I thought Confidant-style drawing would be a really fitting expression of the boggart's "collect everything, even the stinks and stings" motif. Seeing how Oona's Grace could draw you out of a stall, Auntie's Discovery is especially good at getting you through gluts of land to your next action spell.
DeleteMight be a little high-concept, but ideally it works in practice? I appreciate other points of view on that for sure.
Ideas for a White Common, part the first:
ReplyDeleteFeatherlight Kithkin 2W
Kithkin Soldier
When ~ enters the battlefield, if you control another Kithkin, target creature you control gets +1/+1 and gains flying until end of turn.
1/2
Stalemate Giant 5W
Giant
Vigilance
4/5
Lucid Lanechanger 2W
Merfolk Wizard
Dreamer -- Whenever ~ becomes tapped, you may exile it. If you do, tap target creature and return ~ to the battlefield tapped at the beginning of your next upkeep.
1/1
Dawn of the Tiebreaker 3WW
Sorcery
Creatures you control get +1/+2 until end of turn.
If it's Day, creatures you control gain lifelink until end of turn.
I like Featherlight the best, of these. It's common, tribal without being math-y, and can certainly help get through a stall.
DeleteI like the Kithkin as well. I'm not sure how much it qualifies as 'big' though. Maybe 3WW, +3/+3 and flying? Has Angelic Blessing ever been done as an ETB before?
DeleteStalemate Giant creates stalemates instead of breaking them; Lucid Lanechanger is very texty; and I don't like Day/Night as a mechanic.
I like the idea, but share the reservations: is one tapper or a one-off flying-pump enough to get through a stall? Any big creature can contribute to breaking stalls, but 4/5 is nearly the minimum that could qualify, and the T>P will cause stalls as well.
DeleteYeah, white is the problem child of this exercise, which is why I started there. It doesn't get big creatures at common, or at least not ones that typically contribute to breaking a board stall. Angelic blessing might actually be the solution here, or some variation on it. On a creature, it seems a little much for a common.
DeleteOops, sorry, I think I blanked on the fact you were trying to come with *a* white design, and focussed too much on the fact they didn't *all* work.
DeleteI think all of them have promising seeds even if they're not quite finished as-is. White got Thraben Sentry, 5/4 trample when it meets a condition, that seemed strong for white, but suggests white CAN get larger sometimes.
And any 2+ power flier probably counts, especially if it has an additional ability as well.
Galepowder Apothecary 3W
DeleteCreature - Kithkin
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, each other Kithkin you control gets “T: Target creature you control gets +1/+1 and flying until end of turn. Activate this only as a sorcery.”
1/1
And my week is quickly slipping away from me. Some more designs for iteration before deadline:
ReplyDeleteBlue:
Dreamwalking Merrow 2U
Dreamer -- Whenever ~ becomes tapped, you may exile it. If you do, target creature you control can't be blocked this turn. Return ~ to the battlefield at the beginning of your next upkeep.
1/1
Black:
Bloodcurl Goblin 2B
Creature - Goblin
Whenever a goblin you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life.
1/1
Bloodcurling Belch 3BB
Sorcery
Each player sacrifices a creature she controls with the greatest toughness among creatures she controls.
Red:
Dawnglare Incantation R
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice up to two elemental creatures you control.
~ deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the total power among creatures sacrificed this way.
Green:
Saproling Mentor 4G
Whenever a forest enters the battlefield under your control, ~ gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.
4/5
Aurorablast W/B
Instant
Choose one--
* It becomes Day.
* It becomes Night.
5
Artifact Creature - Scarecrow
Defender
At the beginning of each opponents upkeep, that player loses 2 life as long as it's Night.
4/4
Each of these (except Aurorablast) paradoxically can and does contribute to stalemating board stall.
DeleteI think, especially for the cost, Bloodcurling Belch could be mono-targeted? Though - your boggarts may *want* to be sacrificed... but the toughness restriction means the choice ones may not even get a chance. Here's how I would modify this; but it still may not be a strong competitor for "stallbreaker":
DeleteStinkdrinker Belch 3BB
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice a creature. Target player sacrifices a creature with greater toughness.
or maybe
Stinkdrinker Belch 3BB
As an additional cost to cast ~, you may sacrifice a creature.
Target opponent sacrifices a creature.
If you sacrificed a creature, target opponent sacrifices a creature with greater toughness than that creature instead.
6 lines isn't great for a common, but it's not out of the question. Could probably be cheaper as well. (Sadly, if we up the power of the effect instead, it doesn't stay common for long.)
Dreamwalk feels like Phasing-Lite. It'd certainly be good for triggering tribal ETB triggers, and it has a spell-like effect on its own, but it only occurs every-other turn, and on its own leaves you wondering "why isn't this just T:(effect)"?
DeleteMaybe if it's strong enough + cheap enough that "every other" is fair? Merrow seems like it could be justified since it's unconditional-unblockable. I'd probably put the Lanechanger at W. The more I think about it, the more I kind of like it! The U version here is probably better suited for "stallbreaking" and "big".
I'm thinking of it as a primary blue-centric mechanic, bleeding into white and black. Blue in particular is going to be using tap another creature you control as a cost, so it riffs on that. It may be a little too durdley for a major mechanic, but playtesting is required.
DeleteDo we have any ideas for Night and Day mechanically? It feels difficult to have "two-moded creatures" that aren't DFCs, and "night-and-day DFCs" are sadly already claimed.
ReplyDeleteMaybe there's something to do with "tapped" and "untapped"?
We could do split-card-framed instants and sorceries where only one half can be cast at a time? That would give us a world where effects change but the creatures themselves don't. Maybe... that's something we could want? (Not sure.)
Do we want to define these terms at all or leave them nebulous but "reasonable sounding"?
Is this a two-faction setting with the former residents of full-time-Lorwyn mechanically linked against the fomer residents of full-time-Shadowmoor?
My best footing would be to have a Lorwyn with a few distinct darker traces - similar factions to what we had before, but maybe replace the greater elementals with Nightmares (since that's a creature type already). Maybe bring Noggles back to the light side, as they were pretty fun too? This is just spitballing, though, and I imagine you've got a vision for the plane's status quo.
I considered the DFC route, and it's not a bad implementation. creatures have a static keyword ability, day or night, on their front side, depending on the creature's preferred disposition. They all have the ability on both sides, "whenever a permanent with [night] enters the battlefield, transform ~."
DeleteDFCs are the neatest implementation of this I can think of, but granting the game a day/night/neither status might be an interesting route to explore as well.
Alright. First round of submissions (pending last minute fixings) are here as follows.
ReplyDeleteGiantweft Kithkin 3WW
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
When ~ enters the battlefield, if you control a Giant, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains flying until end of turn.
2/2
Blue:
Dreamwalking Merrow 2U
Dreamer -- Whenever ~ becomes tapped, you may exile it. If you do, target creature you control can't be blocked this turn. Return ~ to the battlefield at the beginning of your next upkeep.
1/1
Black:
Bloodcurl Goblin 1B
Creature - Goblin
Whenever a goblin you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life.
1/1
Bloodcurling Belch 2BB
Sorcery
Target player sacrifices a creature she controls with the greatest toughness among creatures she controls.
Red:
Dawnglare Incantation R
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice up to two elemental creatures you control.
~ deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the total power among creatures sacrificed this way.
Caterwauling Giant 6RR
Creature - Giant
Giants you control have Menace.
6/6
Green:
Saproling Mentor 6G
Creature - Treefolk Shaman
Whenever a forest enters the battlefield under your control, ~ gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.
5/5
Artifact:
Luring Scarecrow 6
Artifact Creature - Scarecrow
5G: All creatures able to block ~ this turn do so.
5/3
Actually, let's modify Caterwauling Giant.
Delete6RR
Menace
6/4
This is really pushing up against what's acceptable power level for a common, but so was the previous iteration.