This is the cleanest execution of the idea (needs to be another permanent you control), but it runs into a problem with cards like Helix Pinnacle. Counters, and the ability to generate them in the game, are so ubiquitous, that it makes a design like this relatively easy to break.
This limits the growth, which is one solution. There's benefits to putting a hard cap on things, but I'm not sure how well it reads, and it discourages you from playing other +1/+1 counter granting cards.
This variation is a lot more rules text. It's one major improvement is that it becomes harder to grow over time, analogous to needing more XP to level up as an RPG progresses.
This approach is slightly cleaner, and forces the feel of questing, as opposed to leveling up based on throwing +1/+1 counters around on your other creatures. It's narrower, but more in line with my original vision.
This is the final approach to getting around the Helix Pinnacle problem. It doesn't ramp up too fast, it's focused on non-creature counters to push the questing feel, and it's fairly grokable.
Each of these variations on a relatively straightforward keyword open up their own avenues of design direction. When coming up with keywords, think about what knobs the keyword itself has, and what minor changes can influence (or should be influenced by) the context of the cards around it.
*In the middle of drafting this I listened to the Drive to Work on Counters, in which Mark somewhat explains why Quest Counters aren't used on creatures.
Questing Wolf {1}{G}
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Whenever a counter is put on a permanent you control, ~ gets +1/+1 until EOT.
2/2
Nice. This could easily be an ability word, or simply an unnamed mechanic.
DeleteI'm skeptical we can support this mechanic across enough cards to name it.
DeleteIsThatAChallenge.gif
DeleteIt's a warning, but…
DeleteThe first couple are quite scary as two Questing Bear 0.1/0.2 will grow each other to their max size. Likewise, 0.3 is confusing with multiple out.
ReplyDeleteI would be interested in seeing what counters you are thinking of adding to non-creature permanents to combo with 0.4/0.5.
Also, 0.5 avoids the questing creatures triggering each other pretty well:
DeleteQuesting Bear 0.6
Questing - the first time a counter is placed on a permanent you control each turn, put a +1/+1 counter on CARDNAME.
Nice iteration, bringing it back to start. I'm torn between noncreatures and general permanents, but either one works.
DeleteSpeaking of it, this defnitely is a keyword that could really use some context. I couldn't imagine an asfan high enough for the final iteration.
ReplyDeleteI think a shockingly underused space is creatures getting abilities after reaching x threshold of +1/+1 counters, kind of like warden of the first tree/rw kithkin which themselves are sidegrades to level up creatures. It would then gain a status like renowned or monstrous after, say, 3 counters, and an ability could turn on for some cards.
Context here is triggering off of Quests in particular.
DeleteThere's some space for threshold tied to counters, but more frequently it would be tied to power (Spikeshot Goblin, Bloodshot Trainee). The problem is that properly parsing these things into magic-ese eats up a ton of rules text. I think the levelers might have been ahead of their time, and they would play a lot better in recent sets, as the audience is much more accepting of mechanics tied to frame than they once were.
I know you said it was meant to work with quests, but what I mean is the logistics aren't working out in my head as far as having the correct number of, say, quests, or something like sagas, plus questing creatures, that it all works out as soon functional theme. I don't know the math though.
DeleteI like the idea of counters as threshold because it can be very easily visually registered. It's not like delirium or threshold for example where you have to go and look through your grave, or something else on board where you'd have to look at each card's type line to see if the threshold is reached.You have 3 counters on your guy is something you can see without reading anything at a glance, very easy.
It's possible a frame could be used to execute on this. Something like a frame with 3 "slots", and once the "slots" are filled, you know you've reached the end and your abilities are on and you couldn't add more counters (in my mind this ability is limited like that, but maybe not necessary). ruleswise it's work like normal counters, but there's just be a visual component. It might help people grasp the mechanic with less rules text.
I do like the switch to noncreature permanents,but I honestly don't know that most players can parse "enters the battlefield with blah counters" from ", place blah counters on". Planeswalkers of course provide another axis - I don't think of loyalty as "loyalty counters" very often, but an uptick ability qualifies for this trigger, right?
ReplyDeleteUsing quest counters instead of level counters /is/ a good idea, though!
DeleteFairgrounds Trumpeter
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