Cool Card Design of the Day4/29/2018 - Now or Later Land is a rare dual land cycle where you choose whether you can't use it the turn you play it or the turn after.
The original wording was "If you don't, it doesn’t untap during your next untap step." and I changed it to the above just for clarity, even though that adds a whole line.Looking at it again, here's a compromise I like:
I love this design, seems to create a very interesting play pattern. The wording I feel can be a lot better though. The 'you may have ~ enter the battlefield tapped' on your most recent iteration doesn't actually do anything. (If you don't tap it the first turn, then it pseudo entered tapped, and if you do it doesn't untap the turn after)
ReplyDeleteSo just drop that and you get:
"When you tap ~ for mana, if it entered the battlefield this turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap step"
Correction, what I suggested isn't quite the same functionally, since it allows you to use it on opponent's turn w/o punishment.
ReplyDelete"When you tap ~ for mana, if it entered the battlefield since your last upkeep, it doesn't untap during your next untap step" maybe?
At that point, you could even make it one ability:
Delete{T}: Add {B} or {G}. If ~ ETB'd since your last turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap step.
Or:
ReplyDelete“~ enters the battlefield tapped.
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may add B or G. If you do, ~ doesn’t untap during your next untap step.
T: Add B or G”
That too changes functionality as you won't be able to use the mana during later phases/opponent's turns. That being said, I do like etb triggers ala Crumbling Vestige
DeleteWorks for me.
DeleteIsao - agree that it changes functionality, but the story is much clearer. The card is saying “I need this mana NOW, and will sacrifice for it” - that story doesn’t come across as clearly (and has logistics issues when you have to remember if you played it last turn) when you tap it on their end step.
DeletePotentially could clean this up with Exert?
ReplyDeleteWhen ~ ETB, you may exert it. If you don't, it enters the battlefield tapped.
That may be a bit too clever instead of accurately portraying what it does. Each option also reads as a downside this way, which isn't great.
~ enters the battlefield tapped and you may exert it. If you do, add G or B to your mana pool.
Delete?
You know, since exert is only on creatures, I would actually love this on an Arbor Dryad-style manland. I don't know if the card would be any good, though, as I'm totally blinded by my infatuation with Arbor Dryad. But it would be cool!
DeleteThis feels like a VERY weird minigame that either has an easy answer ("I wasn't gonna use that mana this turn anyway, so go ahead and enter tapped.") or has a feel-bad tradeoff when you use the mana this turn but then draw the perfect card next turn that you now can't play. In that case you're basically getting punished for playing your best card. There's also easy room for error if you played one of these lands last turn, tapped, so you could use it this turn, then play another one this turn, untapped, and proceed to tap them both. Next turn you can only untap one - but will you remember to? They both look alike and it feels like an easy mistake and difficult to catch.
ReplyDeleteI think a cleaner option would be something like "You may have ~ ETBT. If you don't, put a depletion counter on it. As long as ~ has a depletion counter, it produces colorless mana instead of mana of any color it would produce." A less dramatic tradeoff, to be sure, but less wonky.
I disagree that putting a counter on a land is less wonky, but your point is taken. Thanks.
DeleteThe memory issue is a real one and I think may be an issue even with just one copy. Considering it's not marked in any way, it seems like it would be easy to forget whether it came in tapped or you tapped it for mana that turn. Maybe the experience in actual play would be enough to remember, such as playing a four drop on turn 4 off your fourth land drop, which would mean you had to have used it for mana, but it seems like an additional unnecessary degree for a play pattern I'm not sure is worth it.
DeleteYeah, I'm thinking it's less a bear on turn 4 than turn 8, when you are untapping 8 lands at once. Or more if you are playing EDH. Remembering not to untap one of your lands then is difficult, especially if they are all jumbled together. Which they always are.
DeleteIt's not like the land has been tapped down by an opposing spell or planeswalker or whatever, either. That's easier to remember because it's interaction and other people will be paying attention to it. Without a token or something there's a high risk of "Wait, which land did you play last turn? That one that doesn't untap or that mountain?"
Another implementation of your idea:
Delete"If ~ has a depletion counter on it and it would untap, instead do not untap it and remove the depletion counter.
T: Add X or Y. If ~ ETB this turn, put a depletion counter on it."
That's not perfect because it still allows you to use that land's mana on your opponent's next turn without adding a depletion counter, but I think it's clean.
And you could flavor these lands as delicate, growing biomes, like Endangered Estuary, New Growth Forest, Fire-cleansed Savannah, and so on.
This is definitely a cool design space and I appreciate your idea!
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ReplyDeleteMolasses Bayou
ReplyDeleteLand - Forest Swamp
Molasses Bayou enters the battlefield exerted.
T: Add G or B.
This is awesome. Especially if you use exert tokens to mark your lands. I think this is the simplest, cleanest way to do this. It complicates the fetchland minigame in a way I like.
DeleteI do think they should be given an upside more than land types, namely +2 life. That rhymes with shocklands and makes these less of an incredibly terrible play against aggro.
The Aenyr custom set (by Zervintz) had a really cool cycle of lands that accomplished this in an even smoother way.
ReplyDeleteCity of Wonders
Land
When City of Wonders enters the battlefield, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
T: Add W or U.
These lands were used pretty extensively in Custom Standard and played well. They made for very good fixing.
Nice! This is functionally the same as the Exert design above, right?
Delete