Cool Card Design of the Day10/29/2015 - Turns out there's never been a creature with both vigilance and deathtouch. Not hard to imagine why there aren't a lot of those, but surely one rare or uncommon would be neat.
Green gets both these abilities and the card could be mono-green, but I'm drawn to the idea of making a potentially annoying combination of abilities a little harder to get together. In retrospect, this isn't unpalatable with just 3 toughness, but we could use such tech for a creature with first-strike + deathtouch, for instance.
I think this would mean a lot more on a 2/1 than on a 3/3. Standard aside, Deathtouch on a 3/3 is just not super relevant. I'm fond of:
ReplyDeleteForest Sentry GW
Creature - Elf Soldier (C)
Vigilance, deathtouch
2/1
When I saw "uncommon with vigilance plus deathtouch", I imagined a 1/4 or 2/4 (though the 2/4 would probably have to cost 1GBW or 4G).
DeleteConsidering how annoying Giant Scorpion and Ukud Cobra have been, I'm not optimistic about the game play of a 1/4 or 2/4 Deathtouch creature with Vigilance.
DeleteForest Sentry's pretty cool.
DeleteMaybe too strong for common, but maybe not.
I mean its a common gold card so it is allowed to be reasonably strong. Look at Wojek Halbadiers.
DeleteI guess, "deathtouch" gets weaker as the power of the creature increases, so there must be a point in the middle where it's useful but not too annoying :)
ReplyDeleteIndeed. My guess is 3. Tommy's is 2.
DeleteAnd of course it is relevant with double blockers and what not. I'm certainly not saying I think there should never be 3 power (or 6 power) creatures with Deathtouch, but I think that the combination Deathtouch and pow>=3 should usually occur at Rare or higher unless there is a good reason. E.g. 3/1 Deathtouch Menace would be a perfectly reasonable uncommon.
DeleteWhat makes 3 power deathtouch better with menace than vigilance?
DeleteHere if it were a 2/1 it would be very easy to say treat it as an unblockable 2/1 (which is often irrelevant). A 3/1 puts on more pressure, making the combo of deathtouch and menace more relevant.
DeleteOf course one could design a combination of stats for a set where there are almost no creatures that trade one for one with a 3/3 so the deathtouch would be relevant often by putting a bunch of 2/X's and 3/4+'s in the set, but a high percentage of the time a 3/3 Deathtouch will play like a Nessian Courser.
It's a significant percentage, but I don't believe overly high. There are plenty of X/4s and X/5s in every set.
DeleteFair to say that the gold Sentry Basilisk would be even better as a 3/4.
The "As played" of creatures with 4 or more toughness is very low in most sets. Those usually have CMC>=5, and a typical limited deck will have only 2-4 such cards. Many of them will have flying, etc.
DeleteI've had the Deathtouch on Grave Titan be relevant plenty of times in cube (I may first pick Grave Titan a lot). I do think a 3/3 Deathtouch for 2G would be a reasonable Uncommon in a lot of sets.
My comment was more that if you want to highlight the synergy between Deathtouch and Vigilance you should probably put it on a body that highlights both Deathtouch and Vigilance.